M15 card "Waste Not" amazing for
General forum
Posted on Jan. 7, 2014, 6:16 p.m. by Dreno33
The new card in M15 called "Waste Not" is going to become a stable in all Nekusar, the Mindrazer decks. (besides a few that focus on infinite combos and not draw/discard.
Here's a pic of the new card:
bring back Ravenous Rats . i loved those rats especially when i had 2 in my opening hand.
January 7, 2014 6:22 p.m.
I feel like Rakdos or Mono Black discard is not only going to be a thing, but be the new top deck in the format when this card drops. Even if BNG and Journey into Nyx don't add anything to that possibility, I'm looking forward to running a deck built around this!
January 7, 2014 6:22 p.m.
i'm going to create a broken deck around this real quick and link it in here. let's make a stupid strong casual deck :D
January 7, 2014 6:27 p.m.
I knew I was going to put that in my Nekusar deck the moment I saw it. Amazing card.
January 7, 2014 6:27 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #9
Is this for real? Finally a good card for Standard, what?!?! This would be great in Eternal formats with Hymn to Tourach , Thoughtsieze, Liliana of the Veil ...
January 7, 2014 6:31 p.m.
Here, I realized it'll work PHENOMENALLY in a deck I have already created. Sort of a 60 card version of a Nekusar deck
Here's that deck with the addition of Waste Not
Discard / Draw - 56 dmg T3 Playtest
Casual*
SCORE: 5 | 2 COMMENTS | 337 VIEWSAnyone else have any cool ideas of a casual deck focused around Waste Not?
January 7, 2014 6:34 p.m.
shaistyone says... #13
For EDH, Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
loves this so much.
For standard, I just pray they'll reprint Haunting Echoes
. Discard, kill spells, and then exile every good card they have...
January 7, 2014 6:53 p.m.
Ive really liked the idea of Waste Not and Whispering Madness
January 14, 2014 4:46 a.m.
@Matsi883: I remember there being a thread about this card a while back, but I don't recall who it was.
January 14, 2014 6:25 a.m.
CharmedGeek says... #17
This would be good combined with an enchantment like Megrim
January 14, 2014 6:34 a.m.
8 Racks best friend.... :) Can't wait, do you guys think this card will be expensive?
January 21, 2014 7:24 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #20
Liliana's Caress > Megrim ... With Jace's Archivist and even Psychosis Crawler ... Lol.
It's a niche card, probably no more than $1.50.
January 21, 2014 7:31 a.m.
I just thought with this coming in whilst thoughtseize, duress, sin collector will all still be in standard and other discard cards could it be playable at tournament level? Probably not.
January 21, 2014 7:40 a.m.
This card is awesome and all, but I can't see it being huge in standard or modern. But of course for all the Nekuzar EDH decks out there, there will be absolutely no reason to not have this in there.
March 5, 2014 4:55 p.m.
Cartham, in standard i could definitely see discarding decks becoming a theme. They won't just print this amazing card with no theme behind it or other flavor cards. I guarantee WOTC printing other discard-related cards (creatures, spells, enchantments, etc)
March 5, 2014 5:14 p.m.
People seem to have all forgotten Sire Of Insanity still exists.
March 5, 2014 5:22 p.m.
Sin Collector exiles, doesn't discard.
Waste Not does look sweet though. maybe a b/r deck with Rakdos's Return ?
March 5, 2014 5:24 p.m.
I'd tend to agree with @Cartham.
It's an awesome card, and I'm sure it'll be played, but I think people in general are overvaluing the strength of discard strategies.
It's weak against aggro, and card draw, which is greatly used in the current Standard.
@Dreno33: I don't think we'll see another set with The Rack or Liliana's Caress , so it's going to be hard to rely on discard alone to win.
March 6, 2014 4:45 a.m.
Would be nice to see the rumoured Liliana of the Veil reprinted in M15 and bring back The Rack . But that would be too easy.
March 6, 2014 8:44 a.m.
Whether or not this is readily use really comes down to a simple question. "Are there enough supporting cards, that are playable without this being in play, to make it worth playing?"
Meaning?
1) This card does nothing on it's own, so you need to have a fair number of cards in your deck that force your opponent to discard. (Unless your opponent has some sort of Rat Pack type of strategy, which makes this a viable sideboard)
2) The cards which force your opponent to discard need to be playable cards, regardless of whether or not this is in play... a card that is just used to cause this to trigger will often be a dead card.
3) While making your opponent discard, your deck needs to ensure it can take advantage of the bonuses you are getting. - i.e.: If your opponent discards a land, you need to ensure you can use the 2 Black mana... otherwise, it was just another discard. (What are you going to spend BB on during your combat phase after damage, and your Drainpipe Vermin died and they discard a land?)
4) Even if you get all of the above going for you, there is still the inherent slow down (or even stop) that this strategy has... your opponent will eventually run out of cards, and you won't be able to get any bonuses.
All that being said, there are some cards that would work very well with this which are currently seeing play. (just not sure there's enough)
Thoughtseize and Liliana of the Veil come to mind immediately.
I would love to be able to T2 this, and T3 Liliana, and force a discard... then you will either a) replace your discarded card, b) get a creature, or c) get mana for Thoughtseize or a removal like Doom Blade .
March 6, 2014 9:09 a.m.
On another side note... I was noticing that if you manage to have your opponent discard a Dryad Arbor , you will get both a 2/2 Zombie, as well as 2 Black mana.
I could be wrong, but with the way it's worded, I think this may be the only card they could discard which would give you a double trigger.
March 6, 2014 3:28 p.m.
Rayenous i had thought the same thing. it makes sense for the double bonus. then it got me thinking about the new enchantment artifacts and I confused myself. they BOTH fulfill the same trigger, but does it trigger it twice because they are both two different types? or once because it is still one card?
March 6, 2014 3:40 p.m.
No. Each of the 3 individual triggers can only occur once per card discarded.
Each trigger can be triggered independently of the others...
But the wording Is 1) Creature card, 2) Land card, and 3) non-land, non-creature card.
Since 1, and 3 cannot occur at the same time (can't be both creature and non-creature), and 2 and 3 cannot occur at the same time (can't be both land and non-land)... the only possible double trigger is 1 and 2 (both Land and Creature). The only card that does this is Dryad Arbor .
There is one other card that is getting me confused.
If the discard is random, you may choose to put it on top of your library instead. - (10/4/2004 - You can look at a randomly discarded card before deciding where it goes)
If this happens, you may look at it before deciding.... and you do not have to show your opponent what the card was, unless your had is also revealed - (10/4/2004 - Since the card goes directly to the library, the card is not revealed unless the spell or ability requiring the discard specifically says it is.)
Choosing to place the card ontop of your Library will still trigger effects that occur due to discarding a card. - (10/4/2004 - The discard triggers anything else that triggers on discards.)
... So what happens if My opponent has Library of Leng out... and I cast Hymn to Tourach to make him discard 2?
Does it not trigger?... not according to the rulings
Does he have to show the cards?... not according to the rulings.
Does it trigger as a non-land, non-creautre card?... this seems most likely, but makes no sense, as you can't verify what the card was.
March 6, 2014 4:26 p.m.
I feel an errata may eventually come, adding something along the lines of, "If a card would be discarded, instead reveal that card then discard that card."
A replacement effect that causes all discards (including non-revealed ones) to be revealed before discarding.
March 6, 2014 4:31 p.m.
I don't think that would happen, you msised a ruling.
10/4/2004 Since the card goes directly to the library, the card is not revealed unless the spell or ability requiring the discard specifically says it is.
What I expect is that waste not wouldn't trigger if you have a Library of Leng
on the field. because it can not know what was discarded.
Necropotence does not exile either with Library of Leng because Necropotence looks to the graveyard. To see if it was discarded. I expect waste not to work the same way.
March 6, 2014 4:46 p.m.
let me rphrase that a bit, with Library of Leng
on the field and you choose to discard to the top of your library, waste not will look at the discard but not be able to know what was discarded so it's triggers won't happen. If you choose to discard it to the graveyard, then waste not will be able trigger for the type because it can see it.
Necropotence only exiles when the card hits the graveyard, so if you choose to put it in the graveyard with LL out, it exiles. If you choose to put it in the library, necro still looks to the graveyard to see if it was discarded and since it's not there, doesn't exile it.
March 6, 2014 4:55 p.m.
The only thing that Standard needs to make this card a stable is a playable zombie lord. I think the discard elements are there in mono Black, B/W, and B/R, but Standard lacks a way to make those zombie tokens abusive. Since Journey into Nyx is going into the underworld, maybe we'll get that lord?
GoldGhost012 says... #2
Yay, a reason to run usually crappy discard spells like Mind Rot !
January 7, 2014 6:18 p.m.