What if Eldrazi met Sliver...
Custom Cards forum
Posted on April 6, 2014, 5:41 a.m. by -MisterJ-
I've had an idea that I've been tooling over in my head for a while now. I've pondered the CMC and P/T and never really settled on a set cost vs P/T. Generally we had an argument at work over whether or not Slivers could beat the Eldrazi and my answer is simple. The Slivers would adapt! SO here is my idea and I think its viable. Only issue is I've never came up with a suitable name!
5 colorless CMC for a 3/3 colorless sliver that gives all slivers Annihilator 1.
But for the sake of argument I would also be highly satisfied with an 11 colorless CMC 9/9 that gives all slivers Annihilator 2.
I've thought about this for a while and to me those are the best variations.
If this has been posted before, my bad. But when we had the initial discussion it felt absolutely brilliant, fresh, and original.
Well my other sliver idea everyone I've mentioned it too says its way over powered as well.
UU1 1/1 Counter SliverFlashAll Slivers have FlashAll Slivers have "When this creature comes into play, counter target spell"
I would even go as far to say MAYBE "unless its controller pays 1 for every sliver in play" to make it slightly less broken. But none the less I've always wanted a counter sliver and I think its kinda lame that slivers get just about every other basic mechanic other than counters.
April 6, 2014 6:49 a.m.
Though I guess if we did it that way it would require that a spell be on the stack... Unless it is a may ability.
I guess you could have it read instead UU1 1/1 Counter Sliver "All slivers have UU1 Tap: Counter target spell" But that just seems less cool and less "throw down a counter" like.
April 6, 2014 6:53 a.m.
Seraphicate says... #5
you do know how broken ANY level of annihilator on a creature is, right? it has been said previously, but a sliver that gives every other sliver you control annihilator would break the game, and everybody would be making sliver decks.
also, to be completely honest, i dont think that 20 CMC would be nearly high enough to cover a card that gives every sliver you control annihilator 1. let's be honest here, even 20 mana is relatively easy to achieve with a sliver deck
now you said something about it initially being a 5 CMC creature ... that would render almost every land-destruction and eldrazi-ramp deck in existence useless, and can only be beaten by discards, or control.
people will have to build decks specifically to hard-counter slivers.
so far, all the current sliver mechanics are fair, i dont think its a good idea to take something that's been an eldrazi-exclusive mechanic up till now and just throw it into an army of slivers would be fair to many people.annihilator is a powerful mechanic, and is meant to be more difficult to get into play, because the mechanic is a forced SACRIFICE, meaning it surpasses indestructibility and hexproof completely, and also can only be responded to rarely.
there's a reason why an indestructible, unblockable, hexproof and uncounterable sliver has not been released yet, literally every sliver creature works as a lord to give other creatures you control something. having an indestructible, untargettable, unblockable, uncounterable, double striking, trampling, lifelinking, annihilating army of 30/30's would basically be saying something like 'MTG is all about slivers'. i'm not entirely sure WoTC is trying to send that message.
April 6, 2014 10:29 a.m.
While i understand that logic... If i have enough slivers for annihilator to be an issue with an oh i dunno... 20 cmc sliver, you are screwed anyways! Granted i generally play edh, but still i think if the cmc is high enough for something like this, hence saying around 11 as in my original post, its not as stupid or broken as everyone thinks.
Lets face it, an 11 cost sliver is not going to break Modern, EDH (especially with decks like Zur, Kaalia, etc), or Legacy... At least no more than the original Eldrazi already have.
April 6, 2014 10:57 a.m.
Seraphicate says... #7
the original Eldrazi require a deck of ramp, reanimation or some other way of getting them out fast, in order to be used competitively. basically, a deck that is built for it. many people cannot simply throw eldrazi into a deck, and expect it to work, it's likely to sit in the owner's hand for a long time as dead weight
a sliver, on the other hand, can be thrown into just about any slivers deck, regardless of colour combination and will give EVERY sliver its bonus. you suggested an annihilating sliver. as a comparison to the original Eldrazi, the closest thing that it's ever come to, was Eldrazi Conscription, which you could throw on just about anything, as long as you had the mana. in sliver decks, mana is rarely an issue, if ever at all.
an 11 cost 9/9 sliver is not going to break Modern, yes i can see. What it gives its owner is an entirely different story. you also dont take into account the fact that most slivers P/T are less than half their CMC. main reason being that every one of the green slivers buffs P/T. your Megantic Sliver may say 3/3, but has it ever been a 3/3 while it's on the field?
April 6, 2014 11:08 a.m.
I rarely use slivers for their actual attack power based. Usually off of infinite combo does a sliver deck win, especially in a format where it shines best, edh.
So okay, you want less than half p/t for cmc, it could easily be an 11 drop 3/3 that dies to bolt for all i care.
April 6, 2014 7:13 p.m.
The problem isn't that it's under costed or that it's got too much P/T. The fact that you're giving the most broken attack trigger mechanic to every creature you control is ridiculous (let's be real, every creature you run in a sliver deck is a sliver). No matter how much you make it cost, it could be ramped into, dropped into play with Quicksilver Amulet or Omniscience or infinite mana via Sliver Queen and Mana Echoes . Then you've got a whole bunch of slivers that can swing to wipe a board.
Unless your opponent is also running Slivers, they're running Sigarda, Host of Herons or Tajuru Preserver , or has a metric butt ton of tokens to sac and chump block with, that sliver wrecks games.
April 6, 2014 7:40 p.m.
Seraphicate says... #10
Exactly what erabel said, you're assuming that the boosted P/T is my main concern, which it isnt. having all your creatures gaining annihilator (even 1), would be completely gamebreaking. Jace, the Mind Sculptor , albeit being a card that's been banned for a long time and the more recently banned Deathrite Shaman 's power do not even dream of comparing against an annihilation sliver
based off your assumption, i'm going to guess you're one of those people who'd also like a sliver that gives out Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 's abilities to all slivers you control
the only way that kind of a creature would ever be legal would be in a meta that's completely anti-sac, mana-hate, or control centric.
April 7, 2014 5:21 a.m.
I am sorry, but -MisterJ-, I agree with everyone else... Annihilator is too powerful an effect for slivers to have... just imagine using Hivestone with Aurelia, the Warleader ... your 20 CMC sliver that gives her lets say annihilator 1... would already be ridiculously strong...
Basically you want to win immediately the turn it's played, so it shoud read: Pay 20 mana: You win the game.
Which you can get most of the time, the same effect with 15 mana. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn .
I have seen SOOOOO many players scoop when he hits the field...
That is what your overpowered sliver(s) would do: Make people scoop, not out of fear, but at you being "that guy with the annoyingly OP sliver"
The only way I could see this idea ever working is in an "UN-" set, things that should never be made/ played, except as jokes and gags.
April 7, 2014 2:07 p.m.
Im scared reading this... I will attack you with my 4 slivers who each have annihilator 1 stacked 4 times?
You give me Goosebumps -MisterJ-...
April 7, 2014 9:31 p.m.
Seraphicate Just let it be known I think NO sliver much less any other creature ever should be as powerful as Emrakul. Ever. Period. Everything should be able to be countered or Doom Blade ed
All I'm saying is its a colorless creature so it does to EVERY kill spell there is. It can be countered (maybe @Root Sliver or @Cavern of Souls ), it can be board wiped, it can be pinged to death, returned to my hand, there are a million and one things that can keep it from triggering. That's all I'm saying.
And I stick to the original argument that by the time sliver that can do this comes out, and or his (hers?) ability will ever be used to put on the stack to a resonating power, the game is already over as I will have infinite tokens, infinite mana, and quite possibly every sliver in my deck on the field.
What I plan on doing is building a decent mock up proxy of one and see just how "Stupid broken" it is. Something tells me that a 20 cost 1/1 that gives all slivers annihilator 1 will not be the scariest thing I drop.
April 8, 2014 9:01 p.m.
Also I'd like to point out that not ONE person flinched when I said counter sliver. lolz
April 8, 2014 9:03 p.m.
Counter sliver can be tweaked so it's fair. Mana costs, maybe put it in two colors for some reason, maybe trigger only works on your turn?
April 8, 2014 11:27 p.m.
The reason I thought it would be more fair to have "when a sliver comes into play" is because that actually requires having a sliver in your hand. While a sliver deck will usually have sliver in hand, will you always have the capability of casting it? Not necessarily. Nor would you always want to cast it.
But of course that is up to ego vv2 ego battery variable personal choice and flavor
April 8, 2014 11:31 p.m.
Ultimaodin says... #17
If you played that sliver even as a mock, I'd put every board wipe in existence in an EDH deck to vs you.
Just stop and think about it for a moment if such a card existed.
Turn 1, land, sliver,
turn 2, land, mana sliver,
turn 3, land, haste sliver, another sliver
turn 4, Quicksilver Amulet into swing annihilator.
turn 5, swing more annihilator
turn 6, has your opponent not scooped yet?
April 12, 2014 1:47 a.m.
I don't know anyone that uses quicksilver amulet in a sliver deck because turn 4 I can go infinite tokens/mana/buff which again makes Annihilator the least of anyone's concerns. Unless of course it gets countered, doom bladed, path'd, board wiped, etc.
Thats fine, everyone can say its a bad idea. I'm just saying that Sliver Queen is a LOT more broken in slivers than this idea.
April 12, 2014 1:50 a.m.
A little late on the conversation here but i just wanted to update the following :
Seraphicate said :
"...there's a reason why an indestructible, unblockable, hexproof and uncounterable sliver has not been released yet..."
Shadow Sliver / Shifting Sliver
So this is actually achievable.While i also thought about the annihilator 1 idea, it's not going to happen in the near future since in the mtg lore says that slivers learned new abilities by being in contact with them, so the last plane where we know slivers exists is Shandalar, while the Eldrazi are now in Zendikar, so for an annihilator sliver to exists the Eldrazi should first get to Shandalar, and even then there are another two options: 1) The Eldrazi wipe out the slivers or 2) The slivers could aquire the ability to sacrifice themselves to add one mana of any color to your mana pool [Eg: Skittering Invasion] (which would be pointless having Gemhide Sliver and Manaweft Sliver already).
What i am wanting to see and think would be more likely to happen than a annihilator sliver is a Planeswalker Sliver since slivers have been in contact with more than one Planeswalker before (Karn Liberated, Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury, Lord Windgrace), maybe they could be able to mimic the Spark.
megawurmple says... #2
I've seen similar ideas floating around before and, although interesting, they just aren't feasible due to how broken that would be. It's basically a one sided Planar Cleansing and Armageddon rolled into one due to the amount of slivers you will probably have in play in this sliver deck. It's far too powerful to ever work.
April 6, 2014 6:41 a.m.