What is "fair" magic?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on July 4, 2021, 11:14 p.m. by DarkMagician
So this could probably go in the general forum but since I'm a commander only player I would prefer the opinion of other commander players. I've heard the term "fair magic" and was curious as to what it means in general and what it means to you.
griffstick says... #3
I'll go second. Fair magic means to me. Playing the game to win with giving your opponents a chance to stop you from winning. For instance. Say I'm playing a token deck and I assembled a combo with Splinter Twin and Zealous Conscripts , I can win on the same turn I played it. That isn't "fair magic". On the other hand if my combo was Splinter Twin and Midnight Guard , Now I have gone infinite. Now I just need it to go around for one turn and when it comes back to me, I'll be able to win. Playing like this gives your opponents a chance to stop you from winning. This is "fair magic" in my opinion
July 5, 2021 midnight Edited.
I mostly agree with Caerwyn. I'll add that fair magic also uses very little stax and tax types of abilities and no land destruction, because those types of tactics are just no fun to play against.
July 5, 2021 12:04 a.m.
I had kind of a different working definition. My understanding was that a "fair" deck focused on 1-for-1 interaction, like single target removal over mass removal and emphasis on interactive combat over noninteractive combo. It's correlated with being more casual, but not perfectly. Abrupt Decay is a fair card, but Desecrated Earth isn't.
July 5, 2021 12:09 a.m.
More complete example:
Burn decks or ramp decks at any level are mostly fair. They remove obstacles and threats as needed, then set a direct offense to win.
Stax decks or infinite combo decks at any level are mostly unfair. They rely on mass removal or prevention and try to reduce the level of interaction until they have an undeniable win, even if they never declare an attack or destroy anything.
As I understand it, fairness is a measure of card/deck efficiency and interactivity, not of competitiveness.
July 5, 2021 12:23 a.m.
It's really up to your playgroup. What might not be fair to some could be totally fine for others.
If you aren't sure, you can just ask your opponents before you play.
July 5, 2021 12:32 a.m.
Grubbernaut says... #8
Generally speaking, anything not trying to win via combo or locking your opponent out of the game.
If someone says their deck is "good against fair decks," that's usually what they mean. For example, in modern, lantern or heliod would not be "fair decks," but jund or control would.
July 5, 2021 12:50 a.m.
My playgroup used to jokingly throw around the expression "Fair and balanced magic" as one of us would play Najeela, the Blade-Blossom or Captain Sisay cEDH decks.
At its actual root, I think the idea behind fair magic is mostly the idea of not blindsiding your opponent with a win. It's not about not running removal, or counterspells, but playing the game in a way that is organically moving forward for everybody. So when somebody whips out a game ending combo out of nowhere, the rest of the players feel robbed. Or if someone slams down a card which effectively locks a player out of the game, that player stagnates while the game moves on without them and again feels robbed.
Similarly, if there are four combo decks all trying to play out the combo while counterspelling everyone else's I would still call that "fair magic", since that's the direction the game's heading and everybody is on board with it.
The biggest violation of this is when somebody knowingly sits down at a table with the goal of breaking the social contract. Again, there's nothing wrong with playing a combo deck, but knowingly playing one into a game where the other three players just want to smash heads would be an example of unfair magic. Especially if there are disparities between the overall effectiveness of each deck.
But similarly, a player could be running a deck containing Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhoof Behemoth . That could be considered "unfair magic" as much as a combo if none of the other players are ready for that or it just abruptly ends the game.
While there are a lot of people who interpret fair magic as "supposed to be grindy back and forth", I think that especially in the context of commander it's tightly linked with the social contract more than a particular playstyle.
July 5, 2021 8:27 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #10
I’m not a big fan of the F-word, and do my best to not use it. I think it might be worth comparing the two decks together to determine whether it was “fair magic.” When there is a progression like this, people usually aren’t frustrated enough to use the f-word: “this thing is hitting me for 25% or less of my total life each turn, and I’m hitting my opponent for 20% or less each turn, and we’re in a race, and we both see where it’s going, and we’ll see if one of us draws one of the two answers we’ve each got, and it’s all very exciting.” It also helps when the progression of the game an/or the win-event is something that a person with a general understanding of the game can see; most magic players don’t have the thirteen-step “Jayce/Goblin Outhouse/Mulldrifter” combo memorized (that’s a made up combo, don’t panic). When a few seemingly random cards suddenly begin operating with one another, starting that nuclear fission we have all seen, that’s when people start reaching for the f-word. If there is an enchantment on your opponent’s board, and also a 5/5 flier, a normal player will zap the creature. If, in order to win, you need to know that the enchantment is a zany part to a combo that will win next turn... that feels kinda bad.
July 5, 2021 9:44 a.m.
rshistorysmuf says... #11
I find it strange that a deck with 99 cards that someone can finish a game within six turns. The player draws about say 15 cards and wham end of game..
For me commander is about fun cards. Using cards that no one hardly sees play in. Therefore, my decks are based on themes. Some are more aggressive than others, some are strange, others use old mechanics that have not been removed from the rules.
July 5, 2021 10:25 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #12
The term "fair magic" comes up the most in my playgroup in the context of mana acceleration. Cards that accelerate you but also give you a net loss of mana for that turn ( Nature's Lore ) are "fair", while ones that give you more mana than you spent on them ( Sol Ring ) are not.
Now, that isn't to say that we don't play with Sol Rings and such, but we certainly joke about banning them!
July 5, 2021 12:49 p.m.
For Commander, "fair" is probably just playing the not only the power level but the general play experience that the group enjoys. Though, in general with Magic, "fair" is honestly by my estimation such a meaningless I try to avoid using it.
July 5, 2021 2:40 p.m.
Near meaningless & in a completely subjective context. Nobody likes to lose & it will be exceedingly rare that everyone is going to be happy in a given game. I just say: you do you, the in-game meta will sort out how they feel about it. Then again, I argue that I use sweepers, MLD, etc., however the hell I want. Conventions of "fairness" & acceptable gameplay are so subjective. If other players are sitting in your chair & looking at the exact same options as you are it may change their view pretty quickly on what's "fair"
July 5, 2021 6:09 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #15
I've come to realize that the term seems to be vague in EDH, but very much solid in other formats.
As a player who began mostly with modern and pauper, and later started EDH, it was always well-established what a "fair deck" was in the non-EDH formats; it's not trying to combo a win out of nowhere, nor prevent your opponent from playing the game. In the context of EDH, though, this thread has confirmed to me that I have absolutely no idea what a "fair deck" would be, if such a term is even appropriate to use in an eternal, highlander format.
July 5, 2021 6:19 p.m.
Leonixious says... #17
"All is fair in Love and War"
Just remember that it's not a "War" if its constantly a massacre, and it's not "Love" if you lose the relationships you have with others.
I have been playing for 25 years this past June, and have been a Commander player for 12 of those years. Contrary to popular belief, I can have fun no matter the outcome of a game, as long as those I'm playing are also having fun. "Fair Magic" is based on the Playgroup/s you are part of. My main Playgroup is a very casual group with players up and down the power scale. But I also have a separate smaller Playgroup of cEDH players.
I have, at the time of post, THIRTY completed commander decks ranging from Level 4 to a Level 10. I pick which decks to play based on who I'm playing and try to be fair to the table I'm at whether its brand new players I'm teaching the game too, or experienced players.
I guess the last thing I will say before giving you all a novel to read is my personal definition of "Unfair Magic." Doing anything and everything just to win, no matter the cost. For example, after being asked the power of the deck, intentionally lying and bringing a High Tiered deck, or an illegal deck, to a table of new players.
July 6, 2021 4:25 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #18
griffstick I think all magic is fair magic with the exception of things that absolutely can not be interacted with. So currently my list of unfair magic cards is comprised solely of the 2017 Commanders that have the Eminence ability ( Edgar Markov , The Ur-Dragon , Inalla, Archmage Ritualist and Arahbo, Roar of the World )
July 7, 2021 8:54 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #19
griffstick I'd add to those cards by adding assholes that knowingly sit down at a table full of people trying to play casual and go on to pub stomp everyone else because they play a cEDH deck.
July 7, 2021 8:57 p.m.
LetterLeach says... #20
my turn to chime in! and wow who knew "Fair" had so many definitions! i think its all about tempo, storm/ combo decks seem to be the most hated BUT its only a problem when you break your playgroups timing. if your group expects to play hours long games hitting turn 15-20 then a deck that perfectly combos on turn 2-3 will leave everyone feeling robbed but if you build a storm deck like i built Kalamax, the Stormsire and it takes you a while to win, peeps won't be upset, instead of thinking "What a bullshot combo!" they'll think "darn i shouldn't have let Kalamax get so many counters" or "well that's what happens when i ignore the storm deck after they rummage through a fourth their deck" it also helps if you are open about the strengths and weaknesses of your deck, a line i give for Kalimax would be "always block him even if you don't have any commander damage, and don't let him tap" that last line is in honor of one of our less competitive bruna players slapping some nothing enchantment on Kalamax and giving him vigilance because HOLY SHOT DID THAT FACK MY ENTIRE DECK SOMEHOW
Caerwyn says... #2
Generally, I think "Fair Magic" is any game played at a more casual level--where games are won by combat, non-storm spell-slinging, commander damage, or complex combos that involve 3+ pieces, usually one of which is expensive to cast. Essentially, this is the type of Magic Richard Garfield (Magic's creator) and Sheldon Menery (Commander's creator) want everyone to play--and I would argue their aggressive and often rude statements about "Fair Magic" have been detrimental to the game/format and the community as a whole.
July 4, 2021 11:58 p.m.