Effecient EDH Player vs The Casual EDH Player
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 22, 2015, 4:16 a.m. by SealableZero
I've reached a point in my EDH career to know that every deck I run contains pretty much the following non colored spells
Sensei's Divining Top, Voltaic Key, Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith, rings of brightheart, Ancient Tomb, Sol Ring, etc...
Of course you have your standard colored staples, but I want to talk specifically about the colorless stuff. Unless your running some kind of tribal deck, pretty much every tier 1 deck runs these mana rocks/utilities. So essentially our 99+1 general has turned into 85ish+staples+1 General.
A lot of casual players typically don't run mana rocks like these. They typically have an idea they want to build and put cards in there that follow that build. They don't think about how long it will take to get there. I think this is partially what sets the Effecient player apart from the casual player.
If all players were to run these mana rocks. Games would be a lot more interesting because it would up the speeds of everyone's decks. I can't count how many times I've won a game, but also see that, if joe blow could of had an earlier start, his idea could have really made a difference in the result of this game. This also means more mana opens possibilities that disruption can continuously occur, therefore making the game a lot more interesting.
One problem that I get a lot is that even if I'm not playing a combo deck. Some EDH players frown upon my playstyle just because it's faster. I think they are stubborn in not trying to have some efficiency in their decks. I'm not going to dumb my deck down just because they refuse to up their mana efficiency. Mana rocks aren't expensive, so just get them already.
If everyone ran mana rocks, the game would still last longer, because everyone (or at least should) would have some kind of answer to the threat at hand, while still playing there idea out.
Combos are one thing, and while I support combo players, I'm leaving that part out of this topic. My complaint is efficiency. And I think casual players confuse effeciency with competitive.
I am a competitive player, I do have combo decks. But I also run non combo decks that are good only because I continuously think, "how can my idea be more efficient." And the answer starts with mana. Thoughts?Comments?
RussischerZar says... #3
This is the reason why I'm running cards like Fracturing Gust and Vandalblast in pretty much all decks that can run them. People that rely too much on their mana rocks get x-for-1'd while the more casual crowd (that includes me) gets to catch up.
April 22, 2015 5:05 a.m.
mattskones says... #4
I play a lot of the rocks you mentioned (the good ones at least), and I consider myself a casual player. If I want to be competitive I play modern. If you're hell bent on competitive EDH find people with similar play style and test your mettle against them.
April 22, 2015 5:07 a.m.
DeathChant17 says... #5
I consider myself a casual player, and by that I mean I try not to make my decks too oppressive for my playgroup. I like my decks to be efficient and consistent though. It's no fun playing a deck that doesn't work.
April 22, 2015 5:28 a.m.
thegigibeast says... #6
Well, I must say part of what you say is true. In my playgroup, we are part casual, part competitive EDH players. We both have decks of each types. We agreed to remove Sol Ring from casual decks, because as stated above, the player who gets is Sol Ring first is usually wayyyyyyyyyyy above the other players and often wins. Casual EDH is not meant to be fast, it is meant to be fun, silly cards interactions, group hugs, chaos, Hive Mind! If you want to play fast like this, maybe you are more competitive than you think. What we do for our plygroup is that for our competitive decks, we have no budget limits, but for the casual decks, we have a limit of 100$ for the entire deck, so we are limited in the op cards.
April 22, 2015 7:31 a.m.
fadelightningmm says... #7
I've dabbled in some competitive edh and Sol Ring is definitely the most used rock and places people ahead. That being said i refuse to run it because it is my belief that it makes games stale. My first tournament everyone at the table went turn 1 Sol Ring except myself and another player. That player and myself took second and first respectively. Mana rocks aren't needed if the rest of the deck is built to a t around the idea.
As for casual my group allows Sol Ring (not finding my issue with stale games) but if it is in your opening hand no mulligan are allowed
April 22, 2015 7:44 a.m.
First, manarocks like mana vault, grim monolith and especially mana crypt ARE expensive.
Second, games tend to be more random depending on how many op mana rocks (especially the ones mentioned above) a player draws.
I run 4 EDH decks. One for Duel, one is tier 1 with all the rocks, one 75% powerlevel without the rocks and one 50% powerlevel elf tribal, so I can adjust to the playgroups powerlevel for maximum fun (balance).
April 22, 2015 8:06 a.m.
The first manarock I ever run in any deck is Darksteel Ingot. In my meta boardwipes are a big thing, especially ones which clear out lands. It's not something you will always need to play, but this little card has saved my bacon. Several times.
It's funny that you mention decks being fast and slow because of mana. My current main deck doesn't really do much until between turns 5 and 8, and even then, I typically hold back 2-4 turns on top of that just to read the table. Having speed is always a good thing. Using speed in EDH, however, can make you the first player out.
April 22, 2015 8:54 a.m.
Nevetz1911 says... #10
This is the "competitive" EDH deck I'm building:
Sharuum's Engine Control Room Playtest
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 9 | 12 COMMENTS | 1216 VIEWSI've recently took out of my mainboard the 3 Ravnica Signets just because I focused my deck around cards like Sol Ring, Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo and put many others to find them quicker, like Tezzeret the Seeker (just too useful to untap Lotus and Dynamo), Trinket Mage, Sensei's Divining Top. Even Sculpting Steel is great to copy a Gilded Lotus.
April 22, 2015 8:57 a.m.
Yeah I play mostly casually though I do have a few "power" decks and in the power decks I'll run all the mana rocks though my other ones I'll run Sol ring but that's about it. And your right kinda there is a difference between competitive and efficient though there is a very blurry line somewhere between them.
April 22, 2015 9:13 a.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #12
There is a mix of competitiveness locally. Despite this, I see few of the listed cards; some of the monoliths sometimes. Running too many mana rocks is a risk, because Vandalblast, Bane of Progress, Null Rod are all things to worry about.
Most of my decks (I have about 10 of them) contain Sol Ring but none of the others. Partly because of cost, partly because efficiency is boring.
The decks that play Sol Ring first turn into some other rock (locally, likely a signet) often seem to have an early advantage, but pulling ahead more often than not merely makes you the first causality.
April 22, 2015 9:30 a.m.
SealableZero says... #13
Thanks for the multiple responses. Good feedback!
EDH, in my opinion, has developed into something more than just a casual format. Now, I know that's the "big fear" with a lot of traditionalist, and they will hold that position to their grave. I think that EDH teaches players how to be efficient, and when I get the chance to see other peoples decks I can tell how far they are in their skill level just by the choices they make. I'm not saying that's bad, I think it's really interesting, because usually that players decks change dramatically after playing with them for a long time. EDH isn't just a casual game of lands and monsters anymore. Like a caveman has invented the wheel. EDH has grown as well. And the only word I ever seen thrown around so openly is the word "fun." If everyone became more efficient(note the difference between efficient and competitive), then they would be able to have more fun instead of losing to the guy who played Consecrated Sphinx on turn 3. I'm trying to push players at my local game store to be more efficient, and I think they are finally understanding where I'm coming from.
So the majority of the comments im reading is that speed=not fun... I still argue the opposite. Speed is fun, if everyone did speed, crazy stuff will happen... Pun intended. what I think it is, is that people don't want to alter their decks by putting more removal to slow peoples strategy down. Keep in mind, I'm not saying to combo off with this amount of mana, apparently combo players are satin to casual players. But instead, do more things with it. Get that Eye of the Storm out turn 2 and watch everyone go bonkers.
Another thing is that, typically the player who ramps first gets the table focus. But if everyone did it, it then becomes, whoever changes board state gets the focus. And I find it hilarious, because politics become even bigger here... At least with my play group.
April 22, 2015 12:13 p.m.
fadelightningmm says... #14
SealableZero I like what you mention about how edh is an evolving entity. No matter what you can't please everyone in the entire format if you want to speed up to a big finish by all means do it. I personally like to see the game develop further so that everyone has a moment to do big silly things!
April 22, 2015 12:30 p.m.
It sounds a lot to me like you're saying, EDH is fun and balanced if nobody does what I do, and EDH is fun if everyone does what I do. Since I do it, clearly everyone should too.
I'll agree that it's no fun when the table is on unbalanced power levels, but it ends there. EDH is not what I think it should be, it is not what you think it should be, it is not what Sheldon Meanery thinks it should be. EDH is multi faceted, it is what it is for each individual.
The final answer is always the same. If you don't like the way your playgroup views EDH, find a playgroup you agree with.
April 22, 2015 3:15 p.m.
@PValBlanc"The final answer is always the same. If you don't like the way your playgroup views EDH, find a playgroup you agree with." You said it all !
I like "funky" or flavorfull decks, I don't mind combo deck as long as it's not a two cards combos including the general, I don't like playing against colorless staplers + colors staplers deck because it feels like same games over and over. If a dude play a three colors general, with minimum 10 auto-include colorless staplers (top, sol ring, solemn, boots and the like), and the 10 auto-include staplers and/or tutors of each colors or combinations of colors of the general there is only 22 cards + 1 general that show the flavour of the deck (40 staplers/auto-include + 37 lands). I once read an articles that said that staplers are like spices, it is use to enhance the flavor of a deck, not to be the taste of the deck. Anyway, in my playgroup we agreed on this and everybody's cool with it even if we run a lot of rocks or ramp. When I go to a shop for a game, I bring the deck I want and love to play, I know the others will not have the same view than me on EDH, that's ok and if the metagame is to far from what I love to play, I simply say it to the guys and try to find an other shop to go. There is generaly no hard feelings and as stated above, EDH is for fun and if one have fun in cut throat edh games or competitve edh games or Vorthos edh games or budget edh games or ramp edh games or whatever edh games he likes, one can try to influence his playgroup and if he can't he have to find an other group.
April 22, 2015 6:01 p.m.
Megalomania says... #17
SealableZero - you seem to think of ramping and efficiency as one and the same. Mana rocks are good but having too many (depending on the type of deck you play) can be inefficient.
There are decks, especially aggro ones, that do not require a ton of mana rocks to be efficient. Most 
decks, being aggro, do not need more than a couple of rocks to run smoothly.
April 24, 2015 7:51 p.m.
Speaking from the almost strictly casual viewpoint (I in general don't go to tournaments more serious than FNM and Prerelease), I don't see a problem with ramp (which is what you're actually talking about), as I run plenty of it in my EDH decks, with Sol Ring and Dynamo in all of my EDH decks. I take no issue with people getting their shenanigans out early (I for one love when I get land Avacyn on turn 3).
The problem I have is when people show up with their Mono-Blue combo control decks that always seem to be total denial of any board state until the deck drops Deadeye Navigator+whatever the fuck to get infinite mana, or with the Cruel Control decks that do much the same thing. EDH is supposed to be a fun format, having somebody show up to a casual game with a deck that consists entirely of shutting everybody else down isn't fun. If I want that shit I can go play Modern.
So i short, ramp/efficiency I don't see a problem with, cruel control, general board denial I do see a problem with.
April 25, 2015 9:01 p.m.
Megalomania says... #19
Dumbed down decks are no fun. I'd rather play against competitive people than guys who would rather whine than build a better deck.
ChiefBell says... #2
Tier 1 decks generally don't run voltaic key or rings of brighthearth. Cards that do nothing in their own are baaaaaad.
Almost all disruption that's worth running runs between 1 and 3 mana so you don't really need rocks for that.
The thing I have a problem with is that essentially top tier edh turns into a bit of a 'whoever draws their sol ring in their opening hand wins' kind of deal. It's boring. When there's arch a large impact made by that opening hand you get a format with a massive luck element instead of skill.
April 22, 2015 4:28 a.m.