Should I Make These Replacements?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Feb. 4, 2023, 6:06 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I have copies of Countersquall and Recoil in my Atraxa, Praetors' Voice EDH deck, but I am considering replacing those cards with Reject Imperfection and Serum Snare, since I feel that those latter cards better fit the theme of the deck. Regrettably, making those replacements would further diminish the prevalence of black in that deck, but that is an acceptable sacrifice for a more powerful and efficient deck.
What does everyone else say about this? Should I replace Countersquall and Recoil with Reject Imperfection and Serum Snare?
marco-piatti says... #3
Very dependent on the power level of your meta. If you play against high power level decks/ cEDH level then the only thing that matters is a low CMC. If power level is lower you can play less efficient cards but more on theme
February 5, 2023 1:31 a.m.
I could see where maybe Reject Imperfection has a place, but in a four color deck I'd ideally like to try to keep your spells to single color pip cost. Like for example, Countersquall uses a single blue and a single black pip, whereas Reject Imperfection uses two blue pips and a generic pip. I get you're trying to get the proliferate ability from it, but if you do something with two blue pips - I'd just rather run something straight up like Counterspell or Mana Drain where it's 2CMC over 3CMC.
I second what bushido_man96 said - bounce spells outside of Cyclonic Rift (and in fringe cases Chain of Vapor) aren't that great and should generally be avoided. I get that, again, you're trying to get the proliferate trigger off but there are times where it'd just be easier to exile/destroy the thing with the likes of Path to Exile/Nature's Claim/Pongify/Tragic Slip.
February 5, 2023 1:36 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #5
February 6, 2023 8:19 p.m.
I like them, but then again - I like most forms of cheaper removal that can hit a variety of targets. Mortify is a bit on the more expensive side imo - especially in black and white. Since you're running Atraxa, Praetors' Voice as your commander you have access to green. I'd just rather run Beast Within as it can target any permanent for the same CMC and it only costs one green and two generic pips as opposed to one white, one black and one generic pip.
February 6, 2023 8:59 p.m.
Bounce removal feels really good in a meta where you can win right away with that card gone, or otherwise before your opponent can replay what you bounced. That's why it's much more popular in cEDH decks, you Chain someone's Rule, or a Static Orb on the end step before your turn and win on the spot. You can run stuff like Capsize or Rift in almost any meta, but unless your meta is crawling with interaction and stax effects that keep you from winning on the spot just run actual removal. Even in cEDH, a big reason people like bounce is that it can cost as little as U to bounce something, that's very competitive if you only need the card gone for a turn cycle, something like Assassin's Trophy costs two mana, and neither are Blue. Blue is generally the best mana in cEDH, you already want lots of Blue sources for your deck's counters so having access to 'removal' in Blue that can deal with any permanent makes a lot of sense.
February 7, 2023 9:57 a.m.
bushido_man96 says... #8
I agree with your assessment, DreadKhan, but do you think those spells are preferred over Pongify and Rapid Hybridization in cEDH?
February 7, 2023 5:16 p.m.
I think it does depend on the deck, you see some running Chain and not Pongify, but you also find some running Pongify and no Chain. I personally would want several versatile removal options before I'd run pure creature removal like Pongify over such, but in cEDH parasitism is a valid strategy, plenty of decks don't have any Blue or run very few Counters, and these decks are still considered viable, not being able to deal with a resolved card type might be an acceptable risk for some decks.
I guess in answer to your question, probably not on the whole, but if a deck is running Pongify, it rarely also runs Hybridization, people don't seem to want a 2nd of. I personally run Swords, Fateful Absence and Oubliette as dedicated creature removal, but I run ~10 removal spells in total, most of it is more versatile. I may need to hit an Opposition Agent (that's my deck's biggest Achilles Heel, though Drannith Magistrate can be almost as bad) but I also need to be able to deal with other permanents sometimes. Actually, I don't have to deal with many other permanent types since I'm rarely worried about Stax once my Commander is out, but it feels like a good idea to have some resistance to my own dirty tricks (Oublietting my Commander would suck!).
bushido_man96 says... #2
I'm not a big fan of bounce removal, especially if you are in colors that support solid, more permanent removal spells. I wouldn't run either spell. I don't think I'd run Recoil either.
February 4, 2023 7:16 p.m.