Why does Painter's Servant cause so much confusion?
General forum
Posted on Jan. 16, 2016, 3:35 p.m. by Gidgetimer
I am a bit peeved about the combo bannings in Modern so I took up playing some Legacy on untap to combo out and have some fun. The Legacy deck I am working on learning is U/R Painter.
A disproportionate number of people try to tell me that the combo Grindstone+Painter's Servant is stopped by them hitting a land card. I would like to ask the community at large if they can think of a reason that my opponents seem to think that land cards are so special.
Painter's Servant clearly states that "all cards not on the battlefield" are the chosen color. People never seem to have a problem understanding the "spells, and permanents" part of the ability. They just seem not able to comprehend that "all cards" means ALL cards.
zyphermage says... #3
Well I can tell you why they think it even if it's wrong. It is because 99% of people come to the table thinking an island is blue until someone tells them all lands are colorless. Painter's servant does say all cards but it breaks a fundamental concept that is unintuitive.
January 16, 2016 3:44 p.m.
bishopboy3 says... #4
Grindstone, Painter's Servant + Leyline of the Void xD ahahaha
January 16, 2016 3:59 p.m.
bishopboy3 says... #5
Build a ridiculous creature deck around that, to distract them from the real problem LOL
January 16, 2016 4:01 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #6
So their misunderstanding stems either from another misunderstanding or from a bad explanation?
Being colorless isn't some mystical property of lands. Color is determined by casting cost, color indicator, and abilities in that order. Lands don't have a casting cost. Only Dryad Arbor has a color indicator. And only animate lands have a color set by their own ability. Ergo all lands except Dryad Arbor are colorless.
So what you are telling me is that the people I am playing in Legacy don't even understand the basics of how color works?
January 16, 2016 4:06 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
Leyline of the void is unnecessary for painter. You run Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus to deal with eldrazi and the deck can't support 4 mana to do nothing, double black, or mulling until it is in the opener.
January 16, 2016 4:11 p.m.
bishopboy3 says... #8
Until you turn up Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or something else ridiculous, or they are playing cards that can be cast from there graveyard as a instant an shit. Good sideboard card if anything.
January 16, 2016 4:25 p.m.
bishopboy3 says... #9
I actually side bored those cards in my life-gain deck to switch it to a mill.. ahaha Drain and Gain, Gain and Drain.
January 16, 2016 4:27 p.m.
zyphermage says... #10
What I am saying is you are trying to explain color to a blind person. :)
January 16, 2016 4:29 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #11
bishopboy3 did you ignore what I said about Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus or are you making a case for the leyline to be better?
January 16, 2016 4:55 p.m.
bishopboy3 says... #12
Not at all, I simply said you could build a deck around Grindstone, Painter's Servant + Leyline of the Void, I'm not aware of the deck you are building. I didn't even know you were the one who started the thread until I read all the way through it. Link your deck in the description. ahahaha
January 16, 2016 5:17 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #13
I don't need help building it, this isn't a deck help.
I was asking why people don't understand how the game concept of color works and that lands and land cards can have a color if something says they do. It is a pretty traditional U/R Painter list though, no need to reinvent the wheel afterall.
January 16, 2016 6 p.m.
grumbledore says... #14
Part of it is the fact you're playing legacy on untap. Playing in person with people who know the format well enough to justify buying the physical cards is a vastly different experience.
January 16, 2016 6:41 p.m.
@scrotality nailed it.
People play on untap to learn decks and gain experience. Let them experience the humility of not understanding proper ruling while attempting to break into a format that has some of the greatest interactions in the game.
January 16, 2016 7:15 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #16
My buddy PookandPie owns the deck and he tells me it happens with physical Legacy too. I have never played Painter at a legacy event since it is one of his pet decks and I am just now putting the effort into learning it. The frequency at which I encounter it may have to do with playing on untap though.
January 16, 2016 7:19 p.m.
maybe because they aren't reading Grindstone and think it's the same as Sphinx's Tutelage?
January 16, 2016 7:44 p.m.
PookandPie says... #18
The last Legacy event I went to, I did, in fact, have a Tin Fins player look me straight in the face, after I activated Grindstone, and tell me that lands are colorless. I spun Painter around and told him to read the card while quoting, "All cards that aren't on the battlefield" which, I think, made him immediately understand. He didn't even call a judge.
So then he began taking cards from his topdeck, two by two, until he hit Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, then he tried to shuffle his whole deck at that exact moment.
"What are you doing?" I asked."You see, Emrakul has this ability that-" he said, before I interrupted."No, I know what it does, stop: I'm asking why you're doing that now, instead of after resolving the ability for Grindstone. Whole deck in the graveyard, then it triggers."
He called a judge who repeated the same words I used during several minutes of trying to explain that he had to finish Grindstone's ability of putting his whole library into his graveyard before he got to reshuffle due to Emrakul trigger (he tried to stop after only putting 10~ cards into the bin). Then, he finally understood why I fetched Tormod's Crypt off of Transmute Artifact earlier in the turn: I activated the Crypt, exiled his whole graveyard with trigger on the stack, so Emrakul's trigger reshuffled nothing.
This is after the game with that same player combo'd with Griselbrand, took himself down to 1 life, Cabal Therapy'd me naming Force of Will, to which I cast Brainstorm, so he found no Force. When he tried resolving Children of Korlis later in the turn, a tapped Sensei's Divining Top gave me a Force of Will that I used to counter his Children as he had no blue cards in hand as he cast them all trying to dig out Tendrils of Agony. I then attacked with Painter's Servant, securing my only life loss win with the deck, and I've owned and played it since 2008. This paragraph has nothing to do with anything else, I just find it funny, because I was about to dig hard for Grindstone that game but I never even had to do that.
Anyway... it wasn't just that player, as even the owner of the shop said, "I hit a land, and that's colorless" as I grinded him out in my first match that evening. Even at a Star City event I had people saying, "This is a land, this is colorless" like some kind of color-hating zombie (devoid zombies confirmed, Wizards?).
It's not like Painter is making complex layers interactions, like how Humility doesn't prevent Celestial Colonnade from being a 4/4 flying creature due to its abilities applying in a later layer (without its mana ability, however, lol, which some people forget). However, I do think it has something to deal with players initially thinking lands have a color, finding out they don't, and then finding out that Magic on Painter is like your brain on drugs.
InfiniteParadoX says... #2
people are stupid. That's about it.
January 16, 2016 3:38 p.m.