[Community Discussion]: What makes a good Magic player?
General forum
Posted on Dec. 17, 2013, 9:02 a.m. by Epochalyptik
I'm starting a series of community discussion threads (all of which I hope to feature) to promote some more conversation about Magic in general.
First up: What do you think makes a good Magic player? What skills are most important? How do good players handle the game?
Feel free to share opinions and stories!
Stone_Munkee says... #3
Personally, my biggest issue is shuffling. Something I do when I shuffle just doesn't seem to click right because certain cards always end up next to one another. Like seeing your entire playset of Soldier of the Pantheon in your opening hand + first 2-3 draws. I've been accused multiple times of 'stacking' my deck because of things like this even though my opponent cuts it or shuffles it a couple times themselves.
December 17, 2013 9:15 a.m.
BiggRedd54 says... #4
Pretty much being good in a limited environment. Not saying you can't be good by playing in constructed, but if you are one of those players that consistently "netdecks" in standard, or runs infinite combos in modern, than yeah...you are not good. I think the Player/Deck percentage is somewhere around 60/40. Even if you run Mono black right now, there is still tough decisions to make sometimes. While anyone can win with a netdecked monoblack dack a more experienced player will win more often. In limited it's all about what cards you can get, I'm not saying if you open your first pack in a draft and pull an Elspeth you win, because you don't (all the time)). In limited it is about the C/UC you pick and put together. If you draft often, and place top 8 often, than yeah you are a good player in my book.
December 17, 2013 9:16 a.m.
MartialArt says... #5
One thing that is very important is to aknowledge a good game and not to ragequit just because someone wins a lot or someone has a better deck / is more experienced in the game.
December 17, 2013 9:16 a.m.
kindofabigdeal says... #6
I guess "Good Player" means a lot of different things to different people. I don't mind admitting that I have a lot of "Timmy" tendencies, so what I think makes a player "good" might be very different to what "Spike" type players think. When I first looked at the question, straight away I thought about players that I had encountered at my local FNM, and whether or not I enjoyed playing against them. So the short answer from me is:
A good player of Magic is one that people enjoy playing against.
Since some of the most memorable and enjoyable games I have played were games that I lost, I could expand on this a bit by adding:
Even when they win.
December 17, 2013 9:24 a.m.
Try to be a good loser and a good winner. Have fun, and don't be a dick. It's okay to be excited about a win or bummed about a loss, but don't belabor the point. Also, you are responsible for your own good time. Other people do not exist solely for your gratification. (What kind of advice was I trying to give again?)
December 17, 2013 9:28 a.m.
There are many things that make a good magic player. The first one has been expounded on and it's keeping calm and clear mind state through out the match, tournament or game. Whatever you're playing. But this is just saying, keep focused and make good decisions based on the knowledge you have. Another quality is the ability to bluff. Knowledge of the rules and cards to exploit any situation is another. Experience is another thing. Preparation, the ability to play 100 matches with same deck to learn it and repeat the sam scenarios over and over. The ability to understand and play the game before it begins, knowledge of the meta game. A strong memory of the different decks you'll face with knowledge on to play when key scenarios arrive. Being able to forecast and predict key turns in a game and what it takes to make them turn out in your favor. Ability to ignore things about your opponent and the spectators around you that you don't like. Handle your own mistakes by learning from and survive them. Not playing to your opponent, stay within your game.
Tldr; staying focused, calm, able to strategize and play through situations that are unfavorable . repeat of the above sentiments.
December 17, 2013 9:35 a.m.
I feel that at the gp I went to and did poorly is because I did not practice enough. Not that I wasn't prepared, I just made mistakes at key moments due to lack of preparation and the reps to have that experience to draw on so I didn't make those mistakes.
December 17, 2013 9:37 a.m.
The ability to have fun in tight situations, not to be so serious. It's a game not life or death, so even getting your ass handed to you, you should still have fun. Staying loose while focused. The tighter you become, the more of the negatives mentioned above will appear. These are all qualities we can carry over into other parts of our lives also.
December 17, 2013 9:45 a.m.
What makes a good magic player?
That's an expansive question that you can answer in one word or barely address in 10,000 words, depending on definition.
Maybe we could agree on some general qualities, instead of typing essays. Things such as -
- Sportsmanship / conduct (above all else)
- Desire (to win, to learn, to adapt etc).
- Knowledge (of the rules, of their deck, of the meta).
- Skill (knowing when to keep mana open, what to play when, how their deck works, how to pull of combos etc).
- Experience / Preparation (practice with their deck, practice with other decks, experience playing against multiple different opponents, know what kind of cards the opponent will play and what you should play).
Does everyone agree that these are sensible headings?
December 17, 2013 9:52 a.m.
smash10101 says... #12
While I can't claim to be a good competative player, I do think I am rather good at casual. Skills I actively work on in a multiplayer environment include bluffing, politics, and gamestate awareness. For bluffing, that often just means holding extra lands in hand and keeping open double blue. For gamestate awareness, I mean I keep track of who's doing what, and how close they are to winning. If the combo player is one card away from going infinite, I hold a counterspell/instant speed removal to stop them. If I'm playing against someone with a big board presence, I make sure they can't kill me every turn. I won't go into politics here.
For 1v1, which I do play fairly competitively, (yeah, I know I said I don't play competative, but that mostly means my decks are cheap/often non-sanctioned formats, and for sure no modern/legacy/vintage) I still do the same stuff, minus the politics. I bluff with lands in hand all the time. In standard, I always play aggro because it's cheap and easy with minimal metagame awareness. (I have a >$20, not counting the shock lands) I always make sure to play safe, keeping open mana for anti-removal spells, especially against control. And if I'm playing control, I play around the Supreme Verdict
. Being able to play around the removal is key, and can let you pilot a sub-optimal deck like mine to victory against a top tier deck.
Other things: always tap intelligently. they are more likely to remove your manadorks and rock than your lands in most formats (as far as I know). And tap lands that tap for only one color (or colorless) or cost mana to use (signets, filter lands, sometimes nythkos/cabal coffers) first. Never play things during your first main (other than lands) unless you have a good reason to. Never play things during second main unless you have a good reason to. Try to get good value out of every card, but to too hard, or you'll end up loosing value for waiting for the perfect moment. Always be aware of what your opponent does and what they could do. And don't be afraid to use cards for things they weren't intended for (like scrying off a Titan's Strength on an opponent's turn when you really need to draw a creature of your own)
/rant, may post more later
December 17, 2013 9:56 a.m.
Or maybe we could look at headings that describe a more general 'personality of a good player'. These could be things like -
- Intelligent (able to reason, understand concepts, how cards interact, predict opponents plays).
- Calm (good sportsmanship, reacts appropriately to pressure, knows how to get out of a tough spot).
- Well mannered / Polite (good sportsmanship, nice to play against).
- Optimistic (wants to learn, wants to play, doesn't get too affected by losses).
- Organised (arrives on time, decks well sleeved and prepared, reliable).
December 17, 2013 9:58 a.m.
We could make the argument all these qualities, mean 'what is it to be a good person in society'. For the most part, none are that far different.
December 17, 2013 10:05 a.m.
smash10101 says... #15
Yeah, I really didn't touch on that part. I think that goes without saying though. I think I'll post the rules from my school's capture the flag group. They should apply to everything ever.
Rule #1: DONT BE A DICK!
Rule #2: BE CREATIVE!
Rule #3: NO WHINING!
December 17, 2013 10:09 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #16
I'd like to clarify that I purposefully left the question open because there's no simple way to narrow it down. I actually think leaving the question vague makes the answers more specific because you get to see what trait (or what few traits) people choose in their posts. That alone tells you as much as anything they write afterward.
December 17, 2013 10:10 a.m.
There are two independent aspects to this question: 1. being good at playing Magic and 2. showing good sportsmanship.
Being good at playing Magic
1. Deckbuilding Knowing how to build a good deck is crucial to being a good player. Epochalyptik has a whole series on the concepts that are important considerations for deckbuilding. This was probably the most difficult skill to master back when I started playing in the mid 90s, because there were no net-decks or online communities to consult, and it took a lot of skill to effectively evaluate what separates a decent card from a great card, and how a deck can make or break a card. Also the concepts of "card advantage", "ramp", mana curve, optimal amount land, etc. were not formally recognized. Did good players take these concepts into consideration? Certainly, but in a more intuitive manner. Books on "how to play magic" were ridiculously simpleminded by todays standards. Today's player have much more available in support and training to quickly be able to learn how to build good decks.
2. Knowing your meta Knowing what the top decks that you are likely to face is critical preparation for knowing how to play well.
3. Pilot your deck Knowing the meta is not enough, you need to know how to play your deck. This means not only do you need to be able to anticipate what your opponent is playing, but also what they are going to do and how to respond. This is crucial for playing all decks, but especially for the control player who is constantly walking the razor's edge and must make the appropriate reaction to what your opponent is doing or they die. This also means that you need to be able to make the appropriate adjustments between games and use your sideboard in a manner that maximizes your likelihood of winning and not simply making reactionary changes to your opponent.
Good sportsmanship
Everyone wants to win, but there are good ways and bad ways of winning, and ultimately this is a game and as a game it should be enjoyable. Demonstrating good sportsmanship: being humble in victory and gracious in defeat are important. It's the difference between making new friends at your LGS and being that asshat that no one likes or wants to talk to. I also think it involves being willing to discuss strategy post-game, which involves point out things that I thought my opponent did well or actions that I would not recommend. I also ask for feedback from players too. Of course, in both cases this isn't forced. It's the willingness to have that conversation. Lastly, and this is more of a personal decision, but I don't want to win because of a technicality. Thus I play with kindness, for example in reminding someone that they forgot that Thassa, God of the Sea
allows them to scry during their upkeep, etc. Perhaps this is because I'm now much older then most players and I know my mind isn't quite as sharp as it was in my 20s: occasionally I forget something. Thus, I'm more tolerant in forgiving little oversights of that nature.
December 17, 2013 10:13 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #18
A good player can keep his head in the game. Many plays have effects that can impact the game beyond the current moment or even the current turn. Being able to keep track of who has what, the available triggered abilities on the board, and temporary effects that are still active is vital to prevent yourself from being unpleasantly surprised. In best-of-N matches, there are even some important bits of information that you need to be able to remember across games in order to succeed, while still focusing the bulk of your concentration on the current game over the previous one.
A good player knows not just what his cards do, but how they interact with other commonly seen cards. You also need to be able to quickly determine how they interact with cards you didn't expect to see at all. There are plenty of games out there that can be lost or won on the basis of whether or not you understand how two or more things work for/against each other.
A good player is adaptable. You should be able to pick up a deck of cards, read through it, and then start playing, even if it includes some cards you've never seen before. This skill is most obviously important in Limited environments (Draft or Sealed), but can also come up in cases where you grab a list from the Internet for an upcoming Constructed event, or when a friend loans you a deck for either Sanctioned or Casual play. Not every matchup or on-board situation is one you've practiced with, seen before, or even heard of, so being able to evaluate an unfamiliar situation is crucial.
A good player can appropriately deal with both failure and success. Most of the time this just means having good sportsmanship, but it also has to do with how you process it internally. In some ways Magic is "just a game", but it's also a hobby (which needs to be enjoyable) and a sport (which needs to have some element of seriousness). If you can keep your thoughts and feelings regarding Magic as a game/hobby/sport well organized and manage them appropriate to the context, that will have a major impact on how failures and successes affect you personally and how well you're able to use your experience to build up all of the attributes of a good player.
There's another group of attributes that make a player truly great, rather than just being good. These include things like putting in practice time, reading and understanding a metagame environment, learning valuable lessons from failures, accurately anticipating things you don't have hard evidence for, thinking multiple turns ahead, and many others, but that's another conversation.
December 17, 2013 10:15 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #19
I look at this "Thus I play with kindness, for example in reminding someone that they forgot that Thassa, God of the Sea allows them to scry during their upkeep, etc." Apoptosis and I am instantly reminded of my rule of one.
When you play against me and you make a play error I will tell you about it once. If you repeatedly make errors following that then you are on your own. I feel that if you keep making errors after I pointed one out to you then it's not my fault from there. That one warning should have been enough to get you focusing on your game more.
December 17, 2013 10:23 a.m.
smash10101 says... #20
Epochalyptik: Nice thinking, now we just have to hope people don't see that before they post and start metagaming it. But anyways, I chose to highlight broad aspects of gameplay, along with some somewhat specific things, in my usual, horrendously disorganized, with a few line breaks thrown in after the fact, manner. I saw the question and thought, "He said player, so I should exclude deckbuilding. As for how to play well, I'll just go over the basics. Don't highlight specific decks or matchups, (too much) or focus on a format I don't play. I did lean a little bit towards control (thanks KrazyCaley), but tried to focus on general stuff. I think politics deserves it's own thread, and the be a good person stuff seemed a bit obvious. It was interesting to see a post after mine that pretty much only talked about being a good person.
December 17, 2013 10:24 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #21
Side note @Ohthenoises: Keep in mind that in Sanctioned play, even though you're not responsible for reminding your opponent about missed triggers, you are still responsible about making sure no one violates any game rules. If your opponent keeps making game-rule related mistakes at a sanctioned event, ask a Judge to have a talk with him about it.
December 17, 2013 10:27 a.m.
SnowCoveredRevenge says... #22
I think a combination of sportsmanship, creativity and the drive to always win is what makes you a good player, Everything else hinges on those three qualities
December 17, 2013 10:27 a.m.
BiggRedd54 some people might see that as offensive. There is nothing wrong with net decks in a competetive setting. Even pros do it. Also, combo decks are some of the hardest decks to play, depending on the type of combo deck. One bad play and the game is lost. Plus with as much disruption there is to still win takes effort. I agree with ChiefBell about his opinion on what makes a good magc player, it's many aspects and one of the most important to me is sportsmanship
December 17, 2013 10:38 a.m.
It has probably been stated already but these questions can go one of two ways. They could refer to the good player as a pro player or the simple concept of a magic player people enjoy playing against. I tend to lean towards the latter being the more important.
What do you think makes a good Magic player?
What makes a good magic player is the ability to keep playing and enjoy the game win or lose (obviously winning is more fun most of the time). Too many times I have played against people who continuously lose games and cease to enjoy the game instead of taking those losses and learning from them.
What skills are most important?
The skills that are most important touch on my points to the first question and then some. The ability/drive to learn and improve always makes for a better player. On top of this, knowledge of the game/rules is important so that they can play correctly and are not constantly needed to be reminded of the way the stack works, triggers, and other various tidbits. They should be able to be taught these rules once or twice and then retain them and continue to share that learned knowledge.
How do good players handle the game?
Good players should handle the game as simply that; a game. Rules are important and should always be followed. Play errors happen. Games will be lost. Shuffle up, continue to improve, and keep having fun.
December 17, 2013 10:45 a.m.
BiggRedd54 says... #25
@kriskurse, didn't say there was anything wrong with net decking. People have done it, and will continue to do it. Just stating that the poeple who do it are not nearly as skilled as they think they are. As for infinites, I've seen people win thousand of dollars for using the Splinter Twin combo, please do not tell me that Infinites are not hard to win with. Truly keeps me away from anything constructed outside of Standard and Casual EDH.
December 17, 2013 10:51 a.m.
Fair enough Ohthenoises, but for me it depends on the opponent. Most of the people who play at my LGS are good to really good... 4-5 are outstanding. I'm somewhere in the middle: I usually beat good players and am capable of beating the best (although I lose at least as many as I win). I think I've only ever once had someone make more then one mistake in a match, and in that case it was the player's first time at the store and he was playing an inferior deck. I don't mind helping someone in that situation more then once. The good players may make one mistake, and I don't mind reminding them about a trigger. Let me put it this way, using another metaphor... during the duel I would remind an opponent that he forgot to take the safety off his gun, but I wouldn't go so far as to load it for him and tell me where my head is located. I mean, I do want to win. After the match... then I would tell him he was shooting in the dark.
December 17, 2013 10:52 a.m.
In my opinion it means that you have a wide variety of formats in which you can build your own decks and that work well, including being good in limited. In limited the main skill is deciding which colors to play and what cards will work and not work and you do need to know that to be good at the format. Netdeckers are not necessarily good at MTG just because they win games, you should know how to build decks. In gameplay most of the skill comes in on deciding to mulligan, deciding what cards to play, and deciding how to use your cards. If you do all of this stuff you will most likely be an experienced and good MTG player.
December 17, 2013 10:53 a.m.
smash10101 says... #28
I'm going to talk a little bit about a different game I've been playing a lot lately, SpyParty.
SpyParty is a game where one player tries to blend in with the NPCs and complete missions (some hard tells, others soft tells) in a set amount of time while the other player watches from afar and tries to deduce who the spy is and shoot them before the spy finishes. (The actual act of shooting is not part of the challenge.) The reason I bring this up is two fold.
SpyParty forces you to pay a ton of attention to things. Everything. And metagaming is a huge part of it as well. I'll apply this to Magic by saying that the ability to predict what your opponent is doing next, if their bluffing, double bluffing, etc., is key in high level play, as is awareness of the game. If they just played ~ then they probably have ~ up their sleeve. Last time I saw them play ~ they followed it up with X. Did they tapout to play that? What does that mean? Chatting with them can also gain you information they didn't mean to let slip, but be careful, because it can backfire. This stuff works well in draft especially, but constructed formats are effected as well (as long as you know the metagame).
The second thing about SpyParty is the community. Being mentored by some of the top players has really helped my game, and I've been sure to do the same to others newer than me. I'm not saying that you should tell your opponent when they make a misplay, but maybe after the game go through what you noticed they did wrong, in a helpful, non-condescending way. The goal here is to improve both of your skills. Tracking everything they've done in the game will make helping them afterwords much easier, and helping the afterwords will help make you try to remember everything that happens. While SpyParty is often fairly competative, almost everyone's goal is to improve the overall skill level of the players. In both Magic and SpyParty, at least for me, the best games aren't the ones where I win in a landslide, but where someone wins by the skin of their teeth. (It does help if it's me though.) One thing I saw at the THS prerelease was a new player who had a bad deck getting helped by one of the top judges in the area, who also happened to be participating in the tournament. While deck help shouldn't be a part of most sanctioned play, prereleases are supposed to be like that, and it made me feel good to see someone learning from their mistakes with the help of a well established player.
/rant ...For now
December 17, 2013 10:56 a.m.
reconaissance says... #29
Firstly I would be classified as "Spike".
Secondly, i think a good player is a person that takes winning and losing well. They don't rage or get mad at other decks. They think ahead, plan out their moves, and see the small details that lead to lines of play that eventually win. Learning to adapt to your meta with your deck also takes skill and helps to make a better player.
Thirdly, learning to accept your mistakes. I've seen it too many times "I just lost to this guy's $300 deck. It's so broken." If you always think you made the perfect decisions and blame the loss on not having a deck that is as expensive then that's just being ignorant.
The first step to becoming a good player is learning the game and the rules.
The second is accepting that you are not perfect and can make better plays.
December 17, 2013 11:03 a.m.
To me, being a good player does comprise of a number of things. I particularly like ChiefBell's first post trying to describe attributes of a good player.
The one thing I think that needs to be highlighted more is the deckbuilding skill. To me, building a deck is definitely part of playing the game, at least nearly as much as actually piloting a deck. If you don't actually build your own decks (which is probably VERY uncommon) then I would argue that you are missing almost half the game.
So what makes someone good at building decks? Nearly all the same attributes everyone has associated with running a deck already, I would say. Knowledge of your meta? Absolutely helpful. Having a good knowledge of game mechanics? Tremendous positive. Being experienced and therefore knowing what REALLY ends up happening in games? Very necessary.
Anytime I end up teaching someone new how to play Magic, I try to give them a strong (and simple) deck to use, then when we play practice with me using something made from boosters mashed together I can still really be trying and have a close game. I only wish I had better deckbuilding skills myself.
December 17, 2013 11:06 a.m.
The question is really what sense of "good". There is a constant balancing act between winning (as it is a competition) and keeping it fun (as it is a game). Someone who is skilled at one aspect, but not at the other diminishes the game.
For the ability to win, I think the biggest skill is knowledge. You have to know how cards interact so that you can build a deck, and play your cards. and have insight into the direction and build of an opponent's deck by looking at their plays before they "get where they are going".
As far as keeping it fun, it really comes down to sportsmanship. Not just by staying gracious in both victory and defeat (though that is essential), but by sharing expertise, even in the middle of a game (exceptions exist, of course. i.e. genuinely competitive play (A person who signs up for a PTQ should have a certain level of knowledge) or when they are being willfully ignorant to manipulate events in their favor). Even when correcting an opponent, to be tactful.
December 17, 2013 11:22 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #32
I think what makes a good magic player first and foremost is the desire to have fun. If you're not having fun the go get a new freakin' hobby. Second is the ability to adapt. As Ohthenoises said, the boardstate is constantly changing, and rarely do games ever go exactly as planned. If you're prepared for this then your tendency to tilt drops.
December 17, 2013 12:03 p.m.
Pattern recognition is the single most important skill in playing Magic. Many professional players attest to this fact, and it's a big reason why former chess players (Tom Martell) and reinvigorated pros (Jon Finkel) perform well at events, even when spending less time preparing than other players might. The ability to recognize a pattern, strategy, or metagame composition and compare it to previous versions allows a player to make more informed and accurate conclusions about all the other necessary skills in Magic, such as deckbuilding, sequencing of plays, spell and ability timing, and many other skills.
December 17, 2013 12:09 p.m.
BiggRedd54 - So you avoid modern, legacy/vintage because they're too combo based and combo based decks take little skill to play and you're not a great magic player if you use one. You're line of reasoning therefore states that the majority of modern, legacy/vintage players are not good. Good start.
I very much reject your premise. It shows a startling lack of thought, knowledge and understanding. You completely miss the point of how intricate combo based decks are to build, refine and pilot. I don't feel like pointing out in minute detail why your claims about combo decks are absurd but I'm sure you'll learn sometime.
I, certainly, found your comment annoying. I'm sure some others just found it offensive. It is definitely wrong.
I can't even be bothered to start with comments about netdecking. Besides the fact that piloting a deck takes skill, regardless of how you built it, there are many other reasons.
You're sounding like a very ignorant player.
December 17, 2013 12:11 p.m.
Jimhawk - I think you could just classify it as knowledge and experience. Experience about common plays and with archetypes. Knowledge of how to react and the likely choices the opponent will make.
December 17, 2013 12:14 p.m.
ChiefBell, pattern recognition is not the same as knowledge or experience.
The idea behind pattern recognition is that it is a skill independent of a single medium; you can translate it easily between different situations and draw parallels therein. For example, a veteran Yu-Gi-Oh player is probably very skilled at playing Magic for the first time because he or she is able to match certain templates between Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh. These templates allow the player to better understand sequencing, resource management, card interactions, and all the many facets of our game with minimal knowledge, exposure, or experience.
And for the record, I have bore witness to exactly the situation I am purposing. A number of Yugis at my local shop have picked up Magic and were instantly better than several players that play regularly in our Standard tournaments, and they knew next to nothing about the game other than the basic rules and card effects.
December 17, 2013 12:25 p.m.
But that comes down to knowledge of how to play card games in general. You mention templates that help you understand how to manage the game. My argument is that these templates are based on your knowledge and experience of card games in general.
That's how I would argue it anyway.
December 17, 2013 12:31 p.m.
I'm sorry Jimhawk, it's a bit odff topic, but when I read " ...A number of Yugis at my local shop..." I suddenly imagined identical cartoon quintuplets from the kids' show invading your store to play magic... thanks for the laugh.
December 17, 2013 12:33 p.m.
ChiefBell & Jimhawk, I think you are both right and wrong about what pattern recognition is, and how it applies to Magic (I'm not speaking on its importance, mind you). Recognizing a card as being part of a pattern within a type of play is based upon knowledge of both cards and those types of plays. Figuring out what type of event is likely to be forthcoming is not "knowledge" per se (though knowledge of the potential events within the format would help to determine it with more specificity), but deductive reasoning.
With the finite number of general win conditions (reduce opponent's life to 0 or below, poison counters (in applicable formats), drawing from an empty library, etc.) and the knowledge that virtually every card in a deck is typically a direct or indirect means to that end, part of pattern recognition will always be based on knowledge, but the ability itself is somewhat exclusive of specific knowledge.
December 17, 2013 1:06 p.m.
BiggRedd54 says... #40
@Chiefbell
Netdeckers would be the only ones who take offense to that. I couldn't care less how netdeckers feel about the truth.If you netdeck occasionally, it's not that bad. But if you net decked a mono-blue deck, after you netdecked a Bant Control deck, after you netdecked a Caw Blade deck, than yeah, it shows your lack of skill. However, I will retract my comment about infinites. I do not know enough about Modern, or Legacy, or Vintage to comment on player skill for those formats.
December 17, 2013 1:36 p.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #41
Knowledge, mixed with luck and an efficiant deck , foresight...able to read your opponent and finally timing, if you look for the best times to compete with a certain deck type that has advantage over what is trending you will do better. Everything else is baggage you take with you into Magic. If you want less problems...pack light.
December 17, 2013 1:41 p.m.
For me, a "good" Magic player is someone that is fun to play against. They both challenge you, and make the game fun to play. If you go against a player that has a deck that is designed to simply run you over, and they are a jerk about it, they might be a "good" player because of the meta and because of the definition, but to me, I'd rather not play against them. Now if I play against someone who has a tough deck to beat, like a match I had about 2 months ago back before the MBD was the norm, and it was a matchup against an Esper control deck. The first game was a win for me with a Sanguine Bond / Whip of Erebos combo and my Lord of the Void hurting them for a lot. Second game he sided in every counter spell he had, and it went down to the wire, with him picking up the win. Third game was another nail-biter, and another close win for him. At the end, we were both nervous, and there was a rush, and we shook afterwards, as any good pair of players should. His comment to me? "That was the best mono-Black Devotion deck I have seen to date. I was not sure I could pull it off. Great match."
That is the type of MTG experience that every player should try to strive to give their opponent each and every match. That is not going to happen, I know, but still. The games are designed to be competitive, and sometimes he who spends the most wins, but it is also finding your niche, playing what you got, and above all, HAVING FUN!!
December 17, 2013 1:50 p.m.
patience. Taking the time to learn your deck... actually know it inside an out and what to do in situations, the odds of drawing your 'out' or 'answer' when to play your cards and in which order to maximize value.
December 17, 2013 1:56 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #44
I think an important thing to remember is putting the same netdeck in a good players hands vs a newer players hands will provide vastly different results. There's more to the game than just playing with the best cards. My friends wife used to say "just put all your good cards in a deck together," because her impression was that "good stuff" deck building wins you games without accepting that it takes all the elements Jimhawk and ChiefBell has been discussing to make a "good player."
As far as the sportsmanship conversation goes, I think peoples true character comes out when you put competition in front of them. My friends wife denied responsibility for her side of the table by attributing my friends success to his "$300 deck." People who are humble when they win and appreciative when they lose are like that in all aspects of their lives, and the same is true for those who are less gracious in their behaviors.
Finally, for me a good player is one who enjoys the game fully. They understand the rules interactions, they know which cards play what roles, and they enjoy the challenge of adaptation. We're mammals and we need to survive in our environment. If Joe Netdeck doesn't adapt his $1000 modern deck to his environment and playstyle he's going to lose. Knowing your niche and not stagnating makes you a good player. Growth is all we can hope for.
December 17, 2013 1:59 p.m.
Experience and Good Sportsmanship.
Yesterday I was dueling a guy (he was running some sort of Orzhov vampires def not standard cause Sorin) and My MUD deck just rushed the hell out of it and took the 2 duels we had easily, then this other guy I've seen get in the top 4 many times asks if he can play, since he didn't bring a deck that day he just used the other players deck (BW Vamps) and he beat me both games with a couple singleton commons, the guy took one look at the deck and beat my (sort-of netdecked) standard ready MUD deck.
It's all about Experience.
The guy didn't even gloat he just gave me some suggestions for decks I've been having problems with in standard and went on his way.
December 17, 2013 2:20 p.m.
in my opinion a good player is someone you have fun playing with. there is this guy i play with whos there to make everyone laugh. your about to get wiped off the board from some massive damage, and he will fog, counter his own fog, then fog again just because he wants the game to go on and he wants to get a laugh out of his friends. (dont ask me why he plays green blue)he keeps up the table talk and half of the time hes raging against his own deck and his lack of skill.....and while rare against the top tier players in out group, he still pulls of a win now and again. ive watched him go from a horrible player to a decent midrange player in our group and ill tell you what, win or lose, hes the best player we have in my circle. you always leave the table with a smile
December 17, 2013 2:40 p.m.
RegisteredDecksOffender says... #47
A good player to me is someone with a decent grasp of phases, card interactions, and an overall understanding of the game. A willingness and drive to learn more shows me that someone wants to be a good player. A good player also shouldn't be a poor sport, whether it's being a sore loser, or a sore winner.
Someone who is willing to teach, as well as learn merits the title of "good player" to me.
December 17, 2013 2:40 p.m.
BiggRedd54 That statement is kind of ludicrous. If you put a netdeck in a new players hands and then in a pros hands you'll get extremely vast differences in choice, playstyle and results. I'm an avid believer in playing the best decks, because testing with those decks can show you the weaknesses that they have, and finding those out can help defeat it in the long run if you ever needed to play against it. Recently I top 8'd a IQ I went to solely because I tested GR Devotion deck and MUD online, and it gave me insight on the weaknesses.
December 17, 2013 3:13 p.m.
As a much more casual player, I see aspects of a good player on more of the sportsmanship side of this question.
I feel like a good Magic player is one that:
- Both wins and loses well. Doesn't gloat, doesn't tilt, and so on. I feel like this has been discussed at length already.
- Knows their meta. They're willing to play less competitive decks in a casual meta and step it up if they're in a competitive one. They don't constantly play Sharuum infinite combo or Maelstrom Wanderer into Jokulhaups in a group that frowns upon Blue decks in general. Neither do they complain when every other player in their meta consistently beats them due to them having a worse deck; they instead strive to be better, ask for advice, et cetera.
- Suffers new players well. Answers questions, even if they're obvious to a guy that's played for 15 years or if they've been asked 200 times (Lookin' at you, Pithing Needle and AEtherling question). Gives deck advice, and good advice; and when the others they're giving advice to say "Hey, Traveler's Amulet has worked wonders for me before," they don't argue with the guy until they take it out, they give other suggestions. Stuff like that.
December 17, 2013 3:37 p.m.
For anyone interested this is the current list of inductees to the Magic Hall of Fame. These players are what made the game great, and they embody a good player. They are all really interesting, and I highly suggest you read about them, or even watch some of them win Pro Tours and such. After all, every good magic player knows three names: Richard Garfield, Mark Rosewater, and John Finkel.
2005 United States Jon Finkel
2005 United States Darwin Kastle
2005 United States Alan Comer
2005 Finland Tommi Hovi
2005 Sweden Olle Rade
2006 United States Bob Maher
2006 United States Dave Humpherys
2006 France Raphael Levy
2006 Canada Gary Wise
2006 United States Rob Dougherty
2007 Germany Kai Budde
2007 United States Zvi Mowshowitz
2007 Japan Tsuyoshi Fujita
2007 Norway Nicolai Herzog
2007 United States Randy Buehler
2008 Germany Dirk Baberowski
2008 United States Mike Turian
2008 Netherlands Jelger Wiegersma
2008 France Olivier Ruel
2008 United States Ben Rubin
2009 France Antoine Ruel
2009 Netherlands Kamiel Cornelissen
2009 Netherlands Frank Karsten
2010 France Gabriel Nassif
2010 United States Brian Kibler
2010 Netherlands Bram Snepvangers
2011 Japan Shuhei Nakamura
2011 Sweden Anton Jonsson
2011 United States Steven O'Mahoney-Schwartz
2012 Brazil Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa
2012 Japan Kenji Tsumura
2012 Japan Masashi Oiso
2012 United States Patrick Chapin
2013 United States Luis Scott-Vargas
2013 United States William Jensen
2013 United States Ben Stark
Ohthenoises says... #2
I believe that resilience to tilt is one of the key components of a good player. M:tG is a game where boardstates are always in flux. one turn you may have a dominant boardstate and the next you get blown out by insert Wrath of God effect here. Having the ability to take these things in stride is one of the largest things in M:tG that I can think of.
TL:DR don't ragequit, take a breath and carry on.
December 17, 2013 9:08 a.m.