New hubs to be added
TappedOut forum
Posted on Nov. 12, 2020, 12:28 a.m. by legendofa
Hi all, I'm one of the people who adds hubs, I'm back from an unexpectedly long break, and I'm working on adding some new stuff. Suggestions I'm looking at are Uro, Mutate, Miracles, Doomsday, Adventures, Devoted Druid, and Blink. Please let me know of any other suggestions, or discussions on the ones I listed, and I'll get to work.
Also, what did I miss with the DragonShield superhero stuff?
Femme_Fatale I'll get Puresteel added. Looks like it's more or less synonymous with Hammer Time and Mono-White Hammer, skimming the top deck lists. Thanks for the tip.
And I'm leaning towards going back to Aikido, but the term Theft seems to have a strong backing.
January 20, 2022 12:23 a.m.
The new hub is currently titled Puresteel Hammer, subject to review.
January 20, 2022 12:28 a.m.
What if there was a non-interactive page of just basic definitions? Put a link to it at the top of the page for those that are curious.
I know this would generate a whole new can of worms, because each one has to be defined accurately and appropriately, but it is a thought I had.
Examples:
- Aggro: Decks that seek to win through fast-paced, combat-based strategies.
- Aikido: Decks that steal creatures and/or otherwise use their opponents' decks/cards against them.
- Amulet Titan: Must be a Modern deck, I'm not familiar with it, sorry. =(
- Arena: Decks built for the online game, Magic: The Gathering: Arena.
January 20, 2022 11:19 a.m.
They do have the descriptions at the hub pages, or at least should... i don't think that helps people at the time of decision though. Tough to know where to put it in front of them, maybe a little tooltip near it would work
I still think the whole "theft" thing is avoiding a very delightful and obvious wording.... :P
January 20, 2022 11:35 a.m.
Is there a list of hubs anywhere to be viewed, other than at deck creation, like a Hubs Page? I ask because perhaps beneath the hubs drop-down, and beneath "Please suggest missing hubs by starting a thread" you could put another line, "For hub descriptions, follow this link and click on a hub". That way people would/should notice that the option is there at the time they might need it.
And what word, Steal?
January 20, 2022 11:53 a.m.
Gattison I need to update it, but here's A Complete Hub Glossary for TappedOut. I'll work on that today.
January 20, 2022 12:43 p.m.
legendofa maybe use theft for Mind Control and Act of Treason effects. I'm surprised Clone doesn't have a tag already. Especially with the Gyruda, Doom of Depths deck
January 20, 2022 12:45 p.m.
legendofa: First of all, that's awesome, I'm saving that with my other resources. Secondly, if we make this list public knowledge, or easily findable, then you could basically name things whatever you want, tbh heh.
As for naming the "Act of Treason" archetype, I would like to cast my vote as Team Aikido. I spoke up for Prowess, because I cared about it, and now I feel the same need here. So...
Ahem. (lol, no Shh, I'm being serious)
Not every archetype is "obviously" named. 12-post, 8-rack and aristocrats are all actually pretty vague to newer players, for example. Aikido gives a coolish sounding name to a semi-popular style of play, AND it incorporates more than outright, Blatant Thievery. ;] Aikido means to use your opponent's momentum/force (aka your opponents' decks) against themselves. I feel this broader, more nuanced and thoughtful title is not only somewhat established (note the post linked is five years old), if not admittedly obscure, but also allows for similar-but different ideas, like milling everyone to reanimate all their best stuff, or more importantly copying opponent's spells, which isn't actually stealing. All of these play styles similarly require one or more opponents in order to achieve their goal of using other players cards against them. The archetype deserves a more accurate title than "Theft" or "Steal" imho. Otherwise I ask why something like "Voltron" would not be subject to the same renaming conventions?
There. And if that doesn't convince the board, I don't know what will. =)
January 20, 2022 3:36 p.m.
Status update: Treasure and 8-Whack hubs added, Dice and Venture into the Dungeon hubs defined, Adventures hub removed as redundant with Adventure from mechanics list.
Hubs still under consideration and review: Lantern Control (very little variation, but I'm seeing more, so this could be added), Kaleidoscope (more of a format than an archetype), Politics (definition to be determined), Tactical Appropriation (awaiting name change).
In updating, I have a concern about the Venture into the Dungeon mechanic. Does it have staying power beyond the current Standard? Is the Commander niche it holds big enough to make it hub-worthy? I'll be checking this one out again when AFR rotates, but I welcome any current thoughts or feedback.
January 20, 2022 8:34 p.m.
We are revisiting DnD later this year with the commander legends set so I could see us getting more cards to do with the dungeon
January 20, 2022 10:18 p.m.
Kougaiji38 says... #13
ETB (Enter the Battlefield effects) should be a hub. Blink is a part of ETB but there are some other strategies that involve focusing on ETB effects that don't involve blinking
February 4, 2022 10:24 a.m.
Suggesting a hub for graveyard loops specifically. Karmic Guide/revillark, Muldrotha/LED/phantasmal image, Gitrog/dakmor, melera/lesser masticore, Ghave/Ashnods Alter etc.
February 23, 2022 8:56 a.m.
Vessiliana says... #15
I know there are hubs for the color combinations, like Sultai or Bant or WURG or rainbow or what-have-you, but I am not able to put them onto my decks? They used to appear naturally, even if I could not choose them, but now they don't.
Also, I would love to see a Life Drain hub.
March 26, 2022 2:36 a.m.
It's been too long since I checked on this. My apologies.
Kougaiji38 ETB will go on the research list.
ijustaguy That might be a little too broad. There are a lot of decks that use the graveyard like this but have nothing else in common. I'll put it on the research list, but it will probably need some tightening.
Vessiliana It's out of my scope, but the color hubs should be applied automatically. Could you please link a deck where it's not working right? Also, I'm not opposed to Life Drain, but I would like an example, please.
April 14, 2022 9:10 p.m.
Vessiliana says... #17
legendofa Thank you for the reply!
Here is an example of a deck where the color tags are not working: Breya.
Or this one: Kenrith
And Lifedrain might be something like Ayara?
April 14, 2022 10:17 p.m.
Opening for discussion:
Kaleidoscope can be added to the Format list. I don't have the admin rights to do that, but I can petition yeaGO or someone to add it. I don't know how popular it is, but the Formats list has all kinds of things I've never heard of.
I think Horde Magic should be moved from a hub to a format. It is a unique format with specific rules, and I believe it's more appropriate there than in the archetype/strategy section.
Life Drain can be added as a hub. The description may be tweaked a little further, but is currently "a lifegain strategy that seeks to win by incrementally and simultaneously increasing its own life total and lowering the opponents' with cards such as Professor Onyx and Ayara, First of Locthwain."
Spell Copy is getting added to the long list. I'm not sure it has the autonomy to be hubbed just yet, but its presence is growing.
Having hubs for both Vehicle and Crew is currently redundant. One is a keyword mechanic, and one is a card subtype. I propose closing the Crew hub and letting Vehicles hold that space.
Is there enough presence for Modified? It seems very niche, a noticeable number of cards come from a single COmander precon, and it's largely covered by Counters, Auras, and Equipment. For now, I don't think it needs a distinct hub; I think it's basically be synonymous with Chishiro, the Shattered Blade Commander. Am I wrong in this?
The Streets of New Capenna abilities Alliance, Connive, Blitz, and Casualty will be added as ability options.
As always, I welcome any feedback, suggestions, or other thoughts.
May 9, 2022 12:53 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #19
legendofa: Modified is just Voltron. It's just an identifier term to group similar concepts together like historic is, so there are hubs that already deal with it.
I don't personally agree that Kaleidoscope to be a format on here. Looking at the mtg Wiki it says that it's a retired casual mtgonline format.
I agree with removing crew and keeping vehicles.
May 9, 2022 1:07 a.m.
Femme_Fatale If Kaleidoscope is retired, then I agree it shouldn't be listed. I just don't see that information at https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Kaleidoscope; do you have a better source?
Sounds like we're on the same page with modified, so it's not going to get added.
May 9, 2022 1:52 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #21
legendofa: It's on that page, scroll down on it and you'll see a large table of all the formats. It's on the very bottom of that table under the section "retired".
May 9, 2022 2:04 a.m.
Femme_Fatale I see it now, thanks. It's hidden on mobile.
May 9, 2022 2:20 a.m.
HankyMueller says... #23
A hub for decks (particularly EDH decks) that focus on manipulating the 'Politics' of multiplayer games. For example: decks that focus on players' relationships as enemies/allies within the context of a single game. Would make sense to just call the hub "Politics" or "Political".
May 24, 2022 2:11 p.m.
HankyMueller Politics is on my list. There's some discussion about that one in particular back on page 6, but to summarize, I haven't seen an objective distinction between "political deck" and "multiplayer deck." While it's possible to build a deck that extensively focuses on the interactions between players, those same interactions should be a consideration for even the most linear multiplayer deck. If a deck contains two Monarch cards, a vote card, and some spot removal and board wipes ("I'll Abrupt Decay that Sulfuric Vortex for you if you protect me next turn"), would that qualify as a political deck? If not, why not?
I'm not discounting the suggestion, I just haven't been able to put together an objective and concise definition for the Politics hub. If you have any thoughts, please let me know.
(Note to self: is Voting a hub? Check this.)
May 24, 2022 2:31 p.m.
HankyMueller says... #25
legendofa Ah, I see. I'm inclined to say that the distinction between a political deck and non-political deck stems not from the cards in a deck, but from a deck designer's/player's intent.
As an extreme example, a player could ask for a vote from the table to determine the target of each removal spell they cast. By doing this, they are giving up some control over how they play the game in order to alter their opponents' perception of their game actions. And they achieve this by playing their cards in a different way, not by playing different cards.
With that said, if that isn't considered an objective distinction by your standards, I totally understand. But I would argue that how cards are played in a deck is just as important as which cards are played in a deck.
May 24, 2022 3:32 p.m.
I don't want to downplay the importance of intent when deckbuilding. I would suggest that Politics is at most at the same scale as Aggro, Combo, Control, or Midrange, the broadest possible categories.
Politics: "a multiplayer strategy that aims to create and capitalize on alliances and conflicts between players."
That might work. It's going to stay on the long list for the moment, but it's by far the most popular request right now.
May 24, 2022 4:22 p.m.
MerlinsMagic says... #27
Suggesting a hub for “Food” decks. It’s an archetype in modern that revolves around making food tokens with The Underworld Cookbook.
June 1, 2022 10:10 p.m.
BlazinJsin says... #28
Can we add one for Donate decks? There are 4 dedicated donate commanders now, plus others that can work.
June 3, 2022 9:49 p.m.
Would like a Hub for ETB / Enter the Battelfield. I have a Flicker (Blink) deck that focuses on ETB Triggers. For your consideration~
June 4, 2022 8:56 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #31
Did tribal get removed it used to exist? And we have blink for etb/flickers.
June 4, 2022 11:47 p.m.
Tribal did exist, but it was discontinued when the individual subtypes became available. There didn't seem to be any reason to have the redundancy; listing a deck as an Elf deck or Cleric deck or whatever would be more precise than simply Tribal.
June 5, 2022 1:04 a.m.
MerlinsMagic If Food isn't already on the selectable checklist, I'll add it to the short list. There's some risk of it being applied to inappropriate decks that only use Food incidentally, but I think that can be determined by recording the usage.
BlazinJsin Donate will be added to the short list, but I expect to do a little extra research on this one to determine the amount of variation there is in the archetype.
June 5, 2022 1:11 a.m.
I would really love the addition of a "Gates"/"Maze's End" hub, and a "Turbo Draw" hub.
June 8, 2022 3:57 a.m.
I think it would be good to change the definition of "blink" to a slightly more generalised "ETB matters". This makes allowances for cards Purphoros, God of the Forge or Terror of the Peaks (as well as many others) where the focus of the deck is to trigger a bunch of ETB effects, generally to win the game but also as the main mechanic of a deck to generate value.
I understand that for cards like Brago, King Eternal this might slightly dilute what the deck is trying to achieve (as this is a true blink deck such that the primary combo in the deck doesn't care about ETB triggers and more just uses it as an untap effect), however it allows decks which heavily rely on the ETB mechanic to tag it as such, even if they don't blink the cards.
June 8, 2022 6:43 a.m.
Yaniv What do you have in mind for Turbo Draw?
enpc I've gotten that request before, and I have to look back and see if there were any objections. If there weren't, I can make that change, then check how it's being used.
June 8, 2022 2:28 p.m.
I would say Turbo Draw is a control strategy that wants to consistently draw a lot of cards. A Wheel deck is a subtype of Turbo Draw that specifically wants to "Wheel the table" (or deprive opponents of cards with say, a Narset or Leovold), but at it's core a Turbo Draw deck wants to keep drawing cards and trigger cards that care about something happening when you draw.
Examples of Turbo Draw cards are: Chasm Skulker, Psychosis Crawler, Queza, Gavi, Jolrael, Lorescale Coatl, Sphinx's Tutelage, Howling Mine.
June 9, 2022 2:15 a.m.
SpartArticus Bringing you into the loop on this thread. Turbo Draw is currently under review. It's taking a while because it's a fairly broad suggestion, but I think it will make it as a hub.
If you have any specific suggestions or definitions, please add them here.
August 5, 2022 3:06 a.m.
thecheesestandsalone90 says... #39
Hello,
I would like to suggest bounce as a hub.
August 12, 2022 7:10 a.m.
EgyptianSpaceGamer says... #40
I think that "flavor" type decks, "art" decks, or "parody" decks would be reasonable hubs.
August 25, 2022 4:54 p.m.
EgyptianSpaceGamer theres a gimmick hub. Art and parody are far too niche to warrant hubs
August 25, 2022 5:19 p.m.
EgyptianSpaceGamer I agree with shadow63. The "Vorthos" hub is dedicated to flavor decks, and the others would fall under "Theme/Gimmick."
August 25, 2022 6:11 p.m.
im guessing blink is the same as flicker, but does that also count bounce (like man-o-war)
September 5, 2022 1:01 p.m.
Malicious If you haven't seen it yet, I responded to your new thread. Blink and Flicker are the same. There have been a couple of requests for Bounce, but so far I think it's a little too niche and narrow to be a unique hub. Could you please link an example of a Blink deck? If it has an original approach or goal, other than mono- or control, that would help a lot.
September 5, 2022 1:32 p.m.
Request for public discussion: I know that Top Deck Matters is popular. My current concern is the scope of the hub. If a Commander deck has one Oracle of Mul Daya and a bunch of impulse draw, should that qualify? Maybe a better name is Top Deck Manipulation, but that's longer than I like, and excludes the Oracle of Mul Daya/Courser of Kruphix sort of cards.
The Donate hub has been added.
September 5, 2022 1:39 p.m.
looks like blink and flicker is realistically a different name for the same thing, as in momentarily exiling something that instantly comes back into play with an ETB effect.
September 5, 2022 1:49 p.m.
Malicious I messed up my earlier comment. Could you please link an example of a Bounce deck?
September 5, 2022 5:39 p.m.
that brago deck i linked has both flicker/blink and a bunch of creatures that bounce other creature with etb effects
Femme_Fatale says... #1
legendofa: maybe go back to old Aikido name?
New hub to add: Puresteel. It's been the top deck in modern for a while.
January 19, 2022 11:27 p.m.