Nissa, Worldwaker options
Standard forum
Posted on July 18, 2014, 12:09 p.m. by abenz419
I got one at the prerelease and I'm planning on trading it tonight because even if she sees play i'm never gonna get more value for her than I will now. But she's had me thinking. I personally don't like her first +1 or her ultimate especially with so much removal and a good board sweeper still in standard, but I was trying to see if there was any way to make them useful without putting yourself at such risk. Then a card that is widely considered unplayable because of it's mana cost popped into my head, Archetype of Endurance . I know it cost 8 to cast, but with the ramp that nissa can provide you actually only need 4 lands in play making a turn 3 nissa and a turn 4 archetype a possibility. This doesn't stop any board wipes but it would help protect against all of the one for one removal in the format reducing your risk of turning lands into creatures. After that there are very few decks who can handle you pumping out a 4/4 every turn along with Polukranos, World Eater s and Arbor Colossus es. I haven't put a ton of thought into this as it just kind of dawned on me last night when I was responding to another comment, but I just thought I'd put it out there and see what everyone else thought.
oh yeah I'm definitely getting rid of her, like I said I'll never get more value for her than i will now. I really feel like she's only good in a mono green deck.. maybe a little splash of another color because her second +1 only untaps Forest . Ramping into her so you can execute what I mentioned in the original post is useless if your playing multiple colors with pain lands and scry lands because unlike shock lands, they aren't forest and can't be untapped.
July 18, 2014 1:23 p.m.
scopesightzx says... #4
I think she will be a major house in mono green devotion decks. Especially when you can fuel Genesis Hydra s and Nessian Game Warden s to keep getting card advantage. I've been really wanting to try Nissa with a Nykthos enchanted with Nylea's Presence
July 18, 2014 1:27 p.m.
You may be right there, but that really brings me back to why I want to get rid of her now before her price drops. She's really only useful for her second +1 ability. Her other +1 puts you at a lot of risk in a format with tons of 1 for 1 removal and her ultimate is essentially a win more when you consider the amount of beaters that mono green already has and the 5 turns it takes to ultimate her.
It's not that I don't think she can be useful, especially in some sort of mono green ramp deck. I just don't think she's $50 useful like she's listed at on SCG. I'd rather pick up some good stuff now and then get her for a reduced price at a later date if I decide that deck is something I want to build. Really I started the topic to see what people thought of the Archetype of Endurance idea. I mean without her it's completely unplayable, but I was just curious if others thought that with her ramp if maybe the archetype could see some consideration.
July 18, 2014 2:16 p.m.
scopesightzx says... #6
Her first +1 is really only useful with Darksteel Citadel in standard (Terra Eternal says what's up), and it's not even that great considering the fact you didn't play a forest.
July 18, 2014 3:19 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #7
I was underwhelmed by Nissa too at first. Then I did some playtesting. She's a house. The man-land plus would be horrible if it was the only plus, but since it just so happens to contrast perfectly with the other plus, it's awesome. Any mono Green or even G splash x would be crazy to not run this as a 2-of.
Anyways, you could do a hell of a lot better than Archetype of Endurance with 8 mana. If played correctly, you shouldn't even be in a position to care if your lands are taken out with spot removal. Supreme Verdict is Nissa's biggest enemy, and Archetype doesn't help with that problem.
July 18, 2014 5:48 p.m.
The whole archetype idea popped into my head as I was telling someone else that her first +1 ability wouldn't be so bad if you had some way to protect them. Ramping into nissa is tough because by ramping you have fewer lands in play when she hits the board which makes turning a land into a creature a tough decision because spot removal not only eliminates what you did that turn but can also set you back without another land to play. It also means that her second +1 ability doesn't do as much either because by ramping she hits the board before you even have 4x forest in play. Turn 1: land and Elvish Mystic , Turn 2: land and Sylvan Caryatid , Turn 3: land and Nissa. That is a very realistic first 3 turns for a mono green deck. Obviously making a land into a creature could be devastating at this point because removal will most likely set you back at least one turn if not more depending on when you hit your next land. That's why I think the archetype could get some serious consideration here. Even if you can ramp into better creatures (i.e. Polukranos, World Eater , Arbor Colossus , Genesis Hydra , Nessian Game Warden , etc) none of them are very good against removal themselves and most of them don't require that much ramp to get into them quickly. I feel like your wasting a spot in your deck if your using Nissa purely for ramp to get into something like a polukranos. The archetype basically has only one downside... its CMC and that can be negated by Nissa... the rest is all upside. It's got the big beefy body you want and it provides protection for all of your other creatures. This allows you to take advantage of all of her abilities and also protects those other big fatties. It also means your not wasting a slot in your deck for a 5 mana ramp spell when green already ramps really good. It doesn't protect against board wipes, but it will greatly reduce the amount of games you lose simply because your land was destroyed as a byproduct of your creatures dying.
July 18, 2014 6:32 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #9
Until M15 came out, you were correct that Mono Green didn't have creatures to ramp into that can protect themselves. Now, however, you have Phytotitan , Ancient Silverback , and Soul of New Phyrexia for solid top-of-the-curve options. Plus, you have Genesis Hydra which laughs in the face of spot removal.
To your point of ramping into Nissa, untapping 3 Forests still opens up plays like Boon Satyr and Courser of Kruphix . In general, I would not use the manland plus until I've had a chance to ramp out my hand and thus don't mind turning extra lands into creatures.
July 18, 2014 8:22 p.m.
I'll give you Ancient Silverback and Soul of New Phyrexia as solid top of the curve creatures but anyone who chose green at the pre release will tell you Phytotitan is not a finisher. It was easily rendered useless in sealed events, it's basically going to have no impact in constructed formats. Aside from pointing out some nice creatures that green can play at the top of the curve, it's still all about how good nissa is at ramping. Something green already does, and well, for much less than 5 mana. I've yet to hear an argument where her first ability and her ultimate are actually useful (which is what I was trying to figure out when I remembered what the green archetype did) and not some sort of downside that you might do if you have no other plays.
Something I didn't really get at when I was talking about only untapping 3x forest, but meant to, is that if your ramping with Elvish Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid to get in to Nissa so you can play your green fatties like Polukranos, Arbor Colossus , Soul of New Phyrexia , Genesis Hydra , Ancient Silverback , and Nessian Game Warden then where do you have room to fit in things like Boon Satyr and Courser of Kruphix ?
I mean you could always drop down another mana dork, but wouldn't you be better off ramping straight into your fatties to keep applying pressure to your opponent (since green has little interaction with their opponents board, like removal) then you would be spending your first 3 or 4 turns ramping into your ramp?
July 19, 2014 12:09 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #11
And now she's up to about $50...
What happened here? Why did she shoot up? Courser of Kruphix synergy? Is she a key piece for some. Green net deck? I don't understand, somebody please explain this to me.
July 19, 2014 2:31 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #12
People looking for bragging points by winning at the first FNM she's legal for with a playset of Nissas.
July 19, 2014 2:45 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #14
If not less, yeah. She could stabilize at 35ish, but 40 or more would be ridiculous.
July 19, 2014 2:54 a.m.
Nissa's dropped to about $30 as of this post, and I'd expect to see her settle at 25 ish. No idea why she spiked, but as more people open more packs, she'll drop. That said, if anyone is interested in trading a nissa, i'll value them at $25 dollars. Have a bunch of cool stuff to trade, including a couple of Garruk, Primal Hunter. If anyone's interested, let me know.
As far as the topic of this forum, I think Phytotitan could be better than people think. Kiora's Follower is a thing.
July 20, 2014 12:09 a.m.
@kyuuri117 even with Kiora's Follower , Phytotitan can't attack the turn it comes back from the graveyard. Even if you could attack with it, attacking is only profitable when your opponent has no board presence because a chump block renders it useless for 2 turns. It can also be played around by keeping your bigger creatures back to block and sending smaller creatures to attack. You force your opponent to either take damage or block and let their Phytotitan go to the graveyard so it can return tapped. The biggest issue with Phytotitan isn't that it comes back tapped (though that's a huge downside) it's the fact it has a 2 toughness. It just makes it that much easier to deal with and render it useless.
July 20, 2014 12:53 a.m.
Also I wasn't able to get rid of it at FNM, just didn't have time to make trades, but I did manage to trade it the next day. I'm very happy with what I got for her too. I know Nissa isn't going to stay at a $50 price tag so I figured even if I end up needing her, it'll be cheaper to pick one up later. I got another Elspeth, Sun's Champion that i needed, I picked up a Blood Crypt that I needed, and I got an Elvish Piper for my Prossh EDH deck. Yup definitely pleased, lol.
July 20, 2014 12:58 a.m.
abenz419 Yea, I'm not really trying to defend Phytotitan too hard, I know it's bad. I'm just thinking for the next two months, it might be decent against MBD, because it somewhat disrupts their 1 for 1 plan. It also might be good against the Revelation Decks. Forcing them to Dsphere a Phytotitan is definitely a win, and if they are playing the Planar Cleansing version, this is just obnoxious. It does get completely shut down by Elspeth though, so I dunno. Just wanted to point out that while it's clearly terrible in creature match-ups, it might be a good one of in a MGD Chord deck vs. the decks listed above.
JakeHarlow says... #2
I don't really play green, but she seems like a solid mid-game mana accelerator. Might give Zoo strategies a boost and put more bodies on the field.
Honestly, if you don't play green or Zoo a lot, sell her now. I have a feeling that her price will settle around $20 pretty soon.
July 18, 2014 12:42 p.m.