I need some help getting back into Magic after a 20 year break
Deck Help forum
Posted on Dec. 19, 2020, 12:38 a.m. by the_solitaire
Hello, and thank you for taking a look at this. I played MtG back in the 1990's, and life made me stop playing around 2000. But I never got around to get rid of my old Magic decks. The other day, a friend of my wife came along and noticed the old decks sitting on a book shelf. She asked me if I were interested to play a few games with her and some friends. And this kind of caused an avalanche that resulted in me signing up here, with like a hundred ideas for new decks.
I guess one can say: You can get out of Magic, but the Magic will not get out of you.
Still though, I am stumbling blind through all the new interactions and mechanics that were introcuced but I started a deck back then, that never really saw completion, and browsing through sites like Card Kingdom and the like, I found a few cards that might work well with the older cards I still owned.
This is what I came up with, and I believe it might even be legal in the Vintage format.
But the deck obviously needs some improvement. The main idea, returning to my old shenenigans, is to build the main deck around having the opponent discard and try to combine this with damage.
Megrim and Liliana's Caress (can I really have 4 copies of that in the deck?) basically give the theme to this part of the deck.
Waste Not was such a nice addition to a discard style deck that I threw in a copy, and Underworld Dreams takes a small jab at any opponent trying to get control back through carddraw.
I am not sure about Memory Jar. It was banned for a while, but as it appears, you can run a copy in Vintage?
Anyways, together with Get's Grimoir the Jar should at least keep my play going, while I play the cheap creatures and spells out fast.
There are some direct damage cards in the deck, mainly to add some form of control against creatures. I a still thinking about a useful sideboard, but since this will be a deck to play some friendly games, it is not strictly required to bring one. Stone Rains would be a candidate for a sideboard.
So this brings me here. How do you think this deck could be improved upon, and what do you think are the big weaknesses of this deck?
Omniscience_is_life says... #3
You've come to the right place, first let me give you a few tips to get started with this site:
If you put 2x brackets on either side of a card's name, you'll get something that looks like this: Liliana's Caress.
If you take a look at the end of the link to a deck, you'll find the way that you'll link it: in this case, blazing-specter-on-a-budget, in 2x brackets with "deck:" preceding it. That becomes Blazing Specter on a Budget
I'll take a look at your deck, but I don't play a whole lot of Vintage so don't expect too much ;)
December 19, 2020 1:54 a.m.
Flooremoji says... #4
First off, I would reccomend switching to a different format than vintage: As the home of literally every broken and old card in the game, it's incredibly difficult for random decks to do well, much less ones one a budget. Vintage is incredibly expensive in paper and still moderatly expensive online, but both are equally inhospitable for decks you randomly brew.
If you are still interested, here is a decent list of good vintage decks. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/vintage#paper
As far as your deck: Your deck suffers from lack of card quality (Fireball hasn't been good in a long time, Liliana's Caress and Megrim aren't great, your lands are really bad, etc.) and your decks plan in general is a bit slow against the amazing card quality top vintage decks have access to (Veil of Summer in particular is a big blowout).
The closest deck I can think of to yours is Legacy Pox, the format is slightly cheaper than vintage (still ridiculous though) and a bit less high powered.
It sounds like you don't want to spend a ton of money to compete, so maybe Modern is better than Legacy, or for that matter maybe Pioneer- I know nothing about that format though.
Cheapest your going to still be competetive in modern is usually going to be around 100 dollars, but top decks can easilly go to 1500. You could look into modern 8-rack, it's never been super popular (or for that matter the most competetive) but it is a discard deck sort of like the one you have, but punishing opponents for having empty hands rather than discardding cards (which is better in almost every common scenario)
Casual MTG is probably your best option for playing the deck you want to play (at the price you want to pay), but I can understand wanting to have a good deck that could comptete should you want to.
December 19, 2020 2:16 a.m.
Throwing in a single copy of a card is not going to help you too much - you want to build for consistency, which means running 4 copies of most cards (sometimes 2 or 3 copies of the card of it had a high mana cost or you otherwise only want to cast it later in the game, so you don’t need to draw it early). The other exception is some cards in Vintage where you can only run one copy, but they’re powerful enough that the chance of drawing your single copy could swing entire games in your favour.
I don’t think your deck is powerful enough for Vintage, since you made a comment about that format, but discard decks can be quite effective at kitchen table.
You should look into “8-Rack” lists, one of the top discard strategies. 8-Rack runs 4 copies of The Rack and 4 of Shrieking Affliction to deal a fair bit of damage per turn. Then you lock down the opponent by using cards like Thoughtseize, Raven's Crime, and Inquisition of Kozilek to keep your opponents from being able to do very much.
Another popular discard deck is Pox. Pox uses Smallpox and similar effects, like Rankle, Master of Pranks, to slow down your opponents, while running things like Flagstones of Trokair and Bloodghast to break parity.
December 19, 2020 2:26 a.m.
the_solitaire says... #6
Thank you. That is quite a lot of useful information already, and really helps me find a route.
So the 8 Rack approach is something I will look into, and since I will play casual mostly, and no tournaments in the near future at least, I will have some time to develop from here.
With the excellent feedback I got so far, I think this might get me really back into the hobby. Thank you all, and I will go and add some brackets now
December 19, 2020 3:12 a.m.
You should play commander instead of vintage or legacy. Its the format you can play against basically anyone anywhere you go and you can do it using your old cards. Nowadays it's the most popular paper magic format.
December 19, 2020 3:26 a.m.
wallisface says... #8
I think the best place to start is Casual. Get yourself and your friends into the game playing some kitchen table magic with the cards you enjoy.
Don’t worry at all about format until your group decides it wants to expand and get more competitive - and at that point, world’s your oyster. Probably start with a few draft & sealed events at your local game store, and get a feel for what people play and what kind of game you see yourself enjoying.
The most important thing imo for “getting back into magic” is dragging your friends along with you for the journey - and in that respect just start playing games and having fun with each other, and see where that leads you as a group.
December 19, 2020 6:25 a.m.
the_solitaire says... #9
That is some pretty solid advise. The group of people that invited me has been playing for about 5 years and mostly stil enjoy their casual kitchen table style games.
I come from a more competitive background, mostly playing draft and urza block tournaments. So one thing I would try to avoid is showing up with a fully rounded competition deck, but I guess, with their experience, I should add a little spice to the games.
As I mentioned before, I love the ideas and critisism posted here so far, because that really helps me get back into the current game
December 19, 2020 6:42 a.m.
Might I suggest picking up a challanger deck. They are based off competitive standard decks. They are $20-$30 and will give you a solid deck right out of the box
December 19, 2020 9:22 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #11
I don’t really play anything competitively, so my recommendations would be weak at best, but I wanted to welcome you back! You and I have extremely similar backstories and I look forward to having you maybe share your perspectives here. The comments giving you websites are great, as the internet has changed M:tG immeasurably. Dig into the search criteria and start with broad searches. There is a ton out there. Lastly: what got me into magic again was EDH(Elder Dragon Highlander)/Commander. Those decks can be super random and did a good job of introducing me to the new mechanics (some of which are old, just now named). The randomness also hits you with a lot of scenarios that will help you get your sea legs back. This is a lot longer than I meant to write, even after clipping a bunch of junk out...sorry. Hit me up whenever you need anything!
December 19, 2020 11:29 a.m.
the_solitaire says... #12
Thank you, FormOverFunction for your input. Indeed, the Scryfall site is a huge help already. How things have changed from when you only could preview the new cards in magazines, as block text, and how trading at draft competition really was your best chance at getting the cards you wanted for a deck.
I think the deck construction offered here on tapped out, together with the overview on scryfall make deck construction a lot more of a science then a trial and error affair as well. And to be honest, trying to put together a deck has always been one of the more enjoyable parts of the game for me.
With the new crowd I met here, I guess I will get some games in sooner or later, but right now Germany is in a lockdown, so that will have to wait.
I will try to keep you informed of how I fare getting back in, and don't worry about writing more then you meant to, because I'd love to hear about your experiences just as much.
December 19, 2020 3:41 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #13
the_solitaire, part of me misses the total freedom (read: abandonment) of magic players of yore. A lot. But the world is what it is, and the benefits far outweigh the downsides. I’ve been very pleased with the community here, you can find whatever you’re looking for. I make borderline-joke decks and want to share that starry-eyed perspective of M:tG, but there’s an all-you-can-eat buffet of people focused on making effective and enjoyable decks. I’ll be interested in your evaluations of the game as time goes on...and with the world being as weird as it is, I might end up at a table with you one day! Here’s to hoping!!
December 19, 2020 6:48 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #14
There are a ton of resources and articles now. Additionally, there is a ton of YouTube content creators.
Tolarian Academy does excellent reviews of magic products and is the poster boy for MTG content creation - for good reason.
Pleasant Kenobe - always seems salty but has good content.
MtG goldfish will have those spicy brews from all formats - if you can get past Seth's voice he uploads an ungodly amount of content.
if you're into lore aether hub is wonderful and magic historian is pretty good top though he can be a bit overly dramatic sometimes.
If you're into finance Alpha investments and Hero's and legends are what you should be watching
If you like toxic mtg community drama deslotator magic, mtg lion and reddit are the places to go.
Scryfall is hands down the best search engine for magic.
AND of course if you like deck building or need advice the tapped out community has your back :)
December 19, 2020 8:17 p.m. Edited.
FormOverFunction says... #15
Thank you RNR_Gaming, I didn’t even think to mention any of that! I would recommend The Magic Historian because he’s also an Old from way back when. ;p
December 19, 2020 9:47 p.m.
Welcome back. We are all excited to see a returning player.
i just want to give you some broad overviews of some of the formats and the state of magic at the moment. I do have some personal biases but i will do my best to present everything fairly.
kitchen table: basically this means no defined format. when people are relatively new to the game or don't care to conform to a format fall under this category. it is assumed that in either case the decks will be very low in terms of power level. poorly designed decks built of everyones favorite cards are the name of the game. your deck as built is probably fine for this level as built.
standard: 60 card format. you are probably somewhat familiar with this one but if now, it's the most few sets of cards released. because it's only the most recent few this does mean that cards rotate in and out of format frequently. because of the small card pool it tends to be the most low powered. the pro is that the format changes frequently. some consider this a draw back as this means the cards/decks they have will become obsolete eventually and a new deck will need to be built. the decks tend to be the cheapest to build but because of rotation may lead to higher expenses in the long run. it was the most popular format until recently.
modern: 60 card format. personal favorite. the format allows anything from 8th edition forward. the larger card pool leads to more powerful decks. your deck won't rotate but will require a slightly higher price tag. a decent modern deck will still cost you at least $100 but rogue brews are still viable.
legacy: 60 card format where every card printed is legal (minus a few banned cards). this format is extremely high powered and extremely competitive. this format can be quite fun due to the large card pool, but can be punishing to new players because of both the initial costs (decks can cost thousands of dollars) and fierce competition.
vintage: 60 card format. very similar to legacy except the ban list is nearly non-existent instead cards are restricted to having fewer copies in a deck. this legacy but more extreme in every way. i see no reason for you to choose this over legacy.
pauper: 60 card format. you are only allowed to play cards that were printed at common rarity, otherwise you can play cards since the game began. i don't know much about this format but from what i heard it's quite strong but open to newer decks. however many cards you may really want to play may not fall into the card pool allowed. keep that in mind.
commander/ EDH: 100 card format. this is the most different from the other formats. it requires that you pick a legendary creature to represent your deck known as your commander. then you pick 99 other cards that must not contain any colors that are not on your commander. you also cannot have more than a single copy of a card in your deck with the exception of basic lands. this format was originally designed for people who had grown bored of "regular" magic. the singleton nature of the deck leads to large amounts of variance in games. this has become the most popular format in magic.
magic has also created "Arena". which is a snazzy looking program that allows people to play standard online against each other. however you can not add your card collection to the program.
i think at the stage you and your playgroup are at, that kitchen table magic is the way to stay for a bit. if you all wish to switch to a specific format, i'd personally suggest modern as it allows you to keep most of your deck. once you decide exactly what you want to do, people will be able to give you much better advice on your deck. though for most of these formats your deck may need some large edits to be viable.
December 20, 2020 11:59 p.m.
Very nice. Ive seen you are german, could it be that you are from Hamburg or near it? If yes, i would have a very nice tip for you.
I think for you Deck and Deck ideas there has been very much input already and you can go to that. I can only repeat what they already said. Commander is the unchallanged Format for nice casual but also good competetive Magic. It brings together the best of both worlds.
December 21, 2020 6:38 a.m.
the_solitaire says... #18
aholder7, thank you for the breakdown of the formats. I had no idea where to place my deck, and now I think I have a clearer idea of where it fits in, and where I would want to place a new deck I might develop. I think I will leave this as it is and use it for kitchen table magic, which, due to my current situation, will suit me best (50+ hour weekly workload, wife with a handicap and a 4 year old daughter), so even if I would want to, tournament play is not really an option at the time.
Still, I would like to build a black/white deck for the modern format at some point in the near future. Spending some oney should not be an issue, but those (nowadays) $30k decks will not be in the books for me. Damn have prices increased on these cards since I quit.
Rhyno52 I live in Germany, but carry a Dutch passport. I live not too far from Dusseldorf, in Northrhine Westfalia. Been to Hamburg quite a few times, but the friends who lived there now moved to a village near Stuttgart, and since that I really only visited Hamburg only once to pick up a pair of hedgehogs.
As for a Commander deck, unless the gaming group decides to play nothing but Commander, I will have some reluctance to build a deck in that style, because I really like the mechanics in 60 card/4 copies decks (with a few freaks thrown in for unpredictability) Moving from that to a 100 card highlander deck is not a move I want to attempt at this point. However, the future is still unwritten. Who knows.
December 21, 2020 2:29 p.m.
killroy726 says... #19
If your looking to keep the discard theme while keeping it in the kitchen table style of play Ill point you to one of my decks Discard Madness . Hope you enjoy, and welcome back.
psionictemplar says... #2
As far as the deck goes, I don't really have much to say, but I did want you to know about the wonderful resource of scryfall.com . It will help you find many things to compliment/continue any sort of idea and can tell you if cards are legal in which formats as well. Good luck in your future magic endeavors and have fun.
December 19, 2020 1:11 a.m.