Pseudo-Rotation Concept
Modern forum
Posted on Nov. 12, 2016, 3:47 p.m. by Surge24
Non-rotating sounds great in theory, and well it is, to a point. Conversely rotating is also great in theory(also to a point). Therein lies the issue and the secret to a healthy meta and player base.
As we saw through the short lived trial of faster rotating Standard, rotation speed has a range it needs to stay within to be effective. Too fast=too many new Cards=overwhelming, too slow=too many old cards=overwhelming.
The concept of too much of something being bad is a simple thing, however determining when that level of "too much" has been met is considerably more complex. It is my personal belief that modern has become to cluttered, with degenerate decks, and along with the inevitable power creep of a non-rotating format, has thus met that level. There is little to no opportunity for creativity in the format.
Wizards has talked about and intentionally caters to three distinct player types, Johnny, Spike, and Timmy. Sadly however the current state of modern is only enticing to one of those archetypes, that one being Spike. If you aren't a Spike, essentially the gist of modern to you is: "There's literally no room for your creativity Johnny", "Go home Timmy modern isn't fun, it's serious".
The way I see it is, there are two options to improve things: Modern equivalent "Power 9" a not so creative option but could possibly be effective.
Or my preferred suggestion, convert modern into a pseudo-rotating format, where every 2 years along with each new standard block, two blocks will be systematically chosen with notice given one year in advance to be temporarily removed from the Modern Format. Unlike the true rotating formats of Standard or Extended, the removed blocks will return to the format after the two year hiatus.
In the meantime, to jump start creativity in Modern and get people excited again, I also propose that sets 8th edition through Fifth Dawn ought to be permanently dropped from the modern format(with notice given), prior to implementation of "Pseudo-Rotation".
*Notice: This is just hypothetical suggestions, just thinking out loud. Haven't given mind to all the implications.
I'd rather have a rotating ban list that shakes up the meta each "rotation."
You'd let Affinity have their fun one rotation, unbanning artifact lands. Then, you'd rotate into unbanning Treasure Cruise for Burn and Delver. You could even unban Mental Misstep and Skullclamp for a little while.
Since bans are temporary, you could also create weird metas to shake things up. Stuff like banning Lightning Bolt or Thoughtseize for a rotation to see what new kinds of decks show up.
November 12, 2016 4:52 p.m.
Necrotesque says... #4
This is absurd. The semi-rotation existed, it was Extended and players hated it, leading to the creation of Modern. And a constructed sanctioned format is by definition a Spiky ecosystem, but no one prevents you from just playing casual modern with your play group. Having random short term bannings would unbalance players and create extremely unhealthy metagames depending on the bans and unbans as suggested above. And the decks are not all degenerate, Skred Red just won a GP, and the finalist was Grixis control. I mean cmon. I've been playing modern since the early days (Affinity and now Thing Ascencion) and the format is doing good, if you dont like it play another format.
November 12, 2016 6:59 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #5
No. Modern is currently pretty okay. The biggest problem in modern is card prices, with the second biggest being that WOTC screws with it too much (see eldrazi winter). There is still plenty of room for creativity in the format; however there is not room for you to bring a bad deck to a tournament and expect to win, and there is a difference between the two. It is reasonable to expect that with enough brewing, you can build a semi-decent deck that will be able to compete in an FNM environment, and thankfully this is also reality (I would because I've literally done this). It is unreasonable to expect to be able to make the next tier 1 deck without being a pro. It is also completely unreasonable to expect every archetype or strategy to be modern playable. There are simply strategies and cards that are bad strategies or cards that will not work outside of the right standard environment and should not be expected to. Inducing a rotation to modern would defeat the purpose of the format and potentially break what is currently not broken.
November 12, 2016 8:32 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #6
Umm. Look at extended. That's essentially what you're suggesting. Modern was created to replace Extended because people hated it.
Also, if you're saying modern isn't creative, you either aren't looking hard enough or in the right places, or you need some orgasmic storm or other combo deck to call a format creative.
November 12, 2016 10:02 p.m. Edited.
Exiled_soul says... #7
Modern is at its most diverse level in quite some time. With the small exception here being dredge making up 8% or so of the meta. Even then, dredge hasnt taken any huge titles recently. There are a ton of different tier 1,1.5,2,2.5 and even tier 3 decks doing decently well. Combo in the form of ad nauseam has been doing well, the new amulet titan decks are doing ok, mid range has been doing well (look at tom ross going 9-0 day 1 with G/W tron), control has been doing well and aggro has been doing well. Each has its own spikes in success and failure but overall modern is quite diverse and that makes for a great environment.
November 13, 2016 12:39 a.m.
I'm not suggesting super extended. No set permanently drops, the old sets aren't always the ones to drop. Rather the approach that blocks are picked according to statistics conducive to enjoyable gameplay, slightly alternating meta's etc.. sounds interesting. Again, once picked they would merely have 2 year restrictions, it wouldn't make anything worthless, fluctuations yes, but generally everything would end up holding its value.
I just see modern falling into the same dead end trap as legacy. It either needs ebb along with its flow, or flux to mix things up now and again, keep things interesting you know. Also, I respectfully disagree that complete stability and predictability is the best thing, a small amount of uncertainty is desirable. I believe if used properly it has the power to breed innovation, excitement, and discovery.
Perhaps the idea would be better served as an offshoot or casual approach to the modern format, rather than thought of as a replacement.
Any ways! I just enjoy theory crafting here and there, thanks for your two cents, valid points were presented by all. I appreciated your thoughts.
November 13, 2016 3:51 a.m.
Modern is reasonably uncertain though because every new set, or at least block, has enough impact to change the game.
Rtr changed modern by giving us abrupt decay and supreme verdict, having a huge impact on control.
Theros changed modern by giving us eidolon of the great revel which made burn much better.
Khans changed modern by giving us tasigur, and jeskai ascendancy which boosted combo decks and single handedly made grixis viable.
Zendikar gave us the eldrazi which dominated for a season, changing midrange forever.
I'm not sure anything came about from new innistrad. Maybe insolent neonate for dredge.
Finally the most recent set gave us cathartic reunion for dredge, a new chandra for skred, blossoming defense for infect, and fastlands for BG and RU.
Modern certainly hasn't reached the point where it's stagnant and new cards make no difference.
Also, off the top of my head, timmy decks that aren't bad: tooth and nail, grishoalbrand, gifts ungiven.
Johnny decks that aren't bad: living end, jeskai ascendancy, eggs (still playable!).
Yes all of the tier 1 decks are very spike orientated and its hard to shift the top 5 or so contenders. However do not allow that to shape your view of modern as a whole. It's a rich and diverse format if you dig deeper. Tier 2 modern exists and it's HUGE.
November 13, 2016 5:18 a.m.
Shadows made Dredge exist. Insolent Neonate and Prized Amalgam made the deck; it would otherwise be unplayable Vengevine nonsense.
November 13, 2016 11:02 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #11
The whole point of Modern is that it doesn't rotate.
Besides wizards already tried pseudo-rotation which is why Splinter Twin is currently banned.
November 13, 2016 12:04 p.m.
It appears I'm not the only one critically examining the state and direction of Modern.
Travis: https://youtu.be/OvNtWqZFs_k
Kevin: https://youtu.be/v56B8_vgr38
November 16, 2016 1:39 a.m.
Yeah but youve actually proven nicely why this is a complex issue. Travis is a die hard johnny who derives his fun from the game with creativity. He wants modern to be shaken up with rotations so that he can innovate with new decks every rotation. On the other hand Kevin is arguing the opposite. He wants ground rules and emphasises consistency. His point of view is that even this current modern is too unstable.
They both have issues but theyre actually vastly opposed in solution. One calls for stability. The other for radical reformation.
November 16, 2016 3:34 a.m.
If you cannot say what cards are legal in a format in a single short sentence, it is not a format. Standard rotations are something very simple, but people become so confused that a site like whatisinstandard.com exists. You severely undervalue the simplicity that the sentence "Modern is a format with all cards printed since 8th edition, with the exception of those on the ban list" brings.
Just a few months ago, dredge was not even a contender for a spot on tier 2 decks, but after SOI, it has become the top dog, even more so with the new Cathartic Reunion. Every single set release has brought changes to the modern landscape.
In the past half a year at least, there has not been a deck that has won the weekend major tournaments two weeks in row.
The argument about player types seems a bit moot. Major tournaments are the place for Spikes, just like the kitchen table is NOT the place for Spikes. Johnnys and Timmys focus, by definition, on something else (self-expression and power plays respectively). Despite being a Johnny or Timmy, you HAVE to be a bit of a Spike to go such a tourney in the first place.
November 16, 2016 4:01 a.m.
I like modern because it allows me to NOT be a Spike.
Bans are generally on cards that discourage other strategies. I can Bring Goat Sisters to FNM to test out if Aetherflux Reservoir or Authority of the Consuls is good tech for it.
In Emma Handy's love letter to Modern on StarCity these sentences stuck out to me, "It's quite hard to have a deck that is prepared for Glistener Elf, Urza's Tower, Prized Amalgam, Slippery Bogle, Death's Shadow, Collected Company, and Goblin Guide...On the other side of the coin, it isn't hard to have a deck that is prepared for Glistener Elf, Urza's Tower, Prized Amalgam, Slippery Bogle, Death's Shadow, Collected Company, or Goblin Guide."
To me that's a world of brewing fun possibilities. And with Skred Red winning (and why didn't we see Stormbreath Dragon in this earlier?) and GW Tron becoming a thing (another brew that kind of makes you go "duh, why wasn't that done before) stagnant is hardly the word I would use for modern. Fun, vibrant, exciting. A place where decks mold and change.
December 3, 2016 11:29 a.m.
I don't know guys, Frontier appears to be picking up steam, that wouldn't be happening if people were happy with modern.. Enlightenment from Travis: The Future of MTG
December 8, 2016 4:33 p.m.
If It lasts long enough to be a healthy format that has decks unique to it, not just from previous standards, it will be fine and could even help modern.
GearNoir says... #2
K.I.S.S.
The more simple things are, the more stable the environment, the more stable the market, and the more happy players will be.
November 12, 2016 4:13 p.m.