Mystic Speculation vs. Serum Visions
Modern forum
Posted on May 7, 2017, 1:20 p.m. by Xica
Recently i came to think, that in control focused lists (like esper control), Mystic Speculation would be a far superior option, compared to Serum Visions
(By the virtue of its ability to recur itself, it produces lot more value late game, and i do not mind losing a draw early game in the case of desperation cast, to have the formerly mentiond ability)
I would like to hear other's thoughts on the matter, please consider that its for control, not for tempo.
mathimus55 says... #3
The problem with Mystic Speculation is that early game it puts you down a card, which in control you never want to be going down in card advantage. Visions at least replacing itself keeps your hand(and therefore options) full. If you're not buying back Speculation it's actively much worse, and being sorcery speed it's too slow to make the large mana investment worth it during your own turn. If it were instant speed we would have a completely different conversation. As is, Visions is much better regardless of control or game plan. Modern is too fast of a format right now that you can spend 3 mana on your own turn and not truly yield anything out of it.
May 7, 2017 1:47 p.m.
Card disadvantage is literally the exact opposite of what control is trying to do, and a modicum of card selection doesn't make that better. Speculation isn't disadvantage if you buy it back, but at that point it isn't competing with Serum Visions - it's competing with Esper Charm, which is still better.
May 7, 2017 1:50 p.m.
In slow control builds you run Think Twice because it is pure card advantage over all the other cards. It's used as a manasink or a response during any part of the game so it's better in draw-go builds than what you're trying to do with speculation. More proactive builds use serum because it's the best t1 play. (Replaces itself and smooths out next 2 draws) on the play, serum allows decks to set up so they can get past t4 AND not lose gas. That is something speculation
May 7, 2017 4:09 p.m.
In anything where you are wanting to setup your next draw, like Modern Miracles or the like, scrying is the king. Anything else, card advantage wins, and Mystic Speculation is too slow to use in that type of format. I do use it as a two-of in my Modern Miracles deck, specifically to help setup the miracles draws, but I rarely buy it back unless I have the spare mana and no plays otherwise. That is the key, and not really getting anything back (save for a card they already know what it is) is not worth the card in your 60 in that type of format.
May 7, 2017 4:18 p.m.
Speculation scries three. This means it manipulates the top three cards of your deck, fixing your next draw.
Serum visions draws a card and then scries two. This means visions ALSO manipulates your top three, but instead puts one of those three into your hand, which is more useful than having it on top of your deck.
May 7, 2017 5:09 p.m.
To be honest i never intended to play Mystic Speculation in any esper list, as i completely agree with rothgar13, that its is just a worst alternative to Esper Charm in most cases.
At the moment i am tinkering with a deck, built to abuse the interaction of Madcap Experiment + Platinum Angel - backed up by stuff that gets ridiculous once the angel is out - for example: Pact of Negation, Stubborn Denial (also good at keeping jund from the greedy t3 liliana play), Glorious End (both as a timewalk on t3, and as a very hard counter against anything), and last but not least Earthquake - which is basically a Bonfire of the Damned that is always miracle, and it even dodges the leyline...
So i want the angel on the field as soon as possible (with backup protection of course).
In most cases the problem i run into is either:
1# Good hand - with disruption - but no Madcap Experiment
2# Good hand, that sadly has only 1 or 2 lands
Both of these are fixed by Mystic Speculation, i am at the moment experimenting with Serum Visions, but as of now it simply didn't put up the same results - it seriously lacks the ability to be recurred past t3.
May 7, 2017 5:22 p.m.
Esper control runs Sphinx's Rev, Esper Charm, and Think twice. That deck isn't interested in being anything other than the best late game deck in the format.
May 7, 2017 6:36 p.m.
It'd might be a little better in combo decks then visions but other than that visions is the way to go unless your format has Ponder or Preordain
May 7, 2017 9:20 p.m.
If you're playing commbo, Remand is better. It keeps ou alive while digging.
May 7, 2017 9:48 p.m.
TheDevicer, shadow63
My problem is finding 1 of 4 Madcap Experiment in my deck, after i found it Remand is as dead card as Remand can get.
It cannot be used to protect Platinum Angel reliably, and a cantrip is just not the same as a cantrip that has scry 2 attached, or a recurring scry 3 effect.
hile my deck is similar in some sense to combo decks, it does not win by resolving the so called "combo", thus fading a turn is just not that great.
(I can also buy a turn with Glorious End and it is very far from being dead draw late game, heck it can counter Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Alas sorry for being not clear enough, but my goal wasn't to discusss the viablitity of Mystic Speculation in esper control, but in a deck that requires a lot of draws LIKE esper control.
Here is the deck in question: Blood Angel's Pact
Dabean27 says... #2
I'm no expert but there are a lot of people who are and serum visions is moderns chief cantrip abd the other card sees no play soooo
May 7, 2017 1:47 p.m.