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Funkydiscogod bro that cheese is even more premium than Gouda. Hats off to ya.
March 14, 2019 7:30 p.m.
As far as Counterbalance mimicing Chalice of the Void ... no, they don't serve the same function. Chalice locks both players off a CMC for the rest of the game (or until chalice dies) while Counterbalance locks your opponent off of one specific CMC for one turn cycle. Stacking Counterbalance s does nothing, while stacking Chalice of the Void with different charge counter amounts further locks out your opponent. They perform different functions, even if they go about it similarly.
March 14, 2019 6:55 p.m.
Counterbalance is strong no doubt... but part of what really makes it worth playing is having a critical mass of control over the top card of your library. Legacy had that with Brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top , as well as fetchlands. Modern (being slower) can actually et away with something similar using fetchlands and Jace, the Mind Sculptor (plus some intelligent play) to do a reasonable impression of legacy's fetchlands and Brainstorm . The real downside here is that in legacy, Sensei's Divining Top , fetches, and Brainstorm all play at instant speed, which is critical for a control deck. In modern, you can still fetch at instant speed, but modern's instant speed top deck manipulation is severely lacking. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is ok at the manipulation aspect but is slow. Ponder is slow. Opt doesn't actually let you manipulate what the card on top of your deck is, they just help manipulate draws. There's not even something as bad as instant speed Mystic Speculation .
Not saying you can't make it work, but rather that you have to really work a lot harder to stack the top of your deck in modern, and even if you do, your opponent only has to get hit by Counterbalance once to know that it's just blocking one specific CMC for that turn, so you still frequently have to hold up counter magics even with Counterbalance in play, which sort of defeats the point.
Now that top is banned in legacy, I don't think Counterbalance even sees legacy play still. Again not saying you can't use it modern, but rather that it lacks the critical support to really make it go hog wild and worth building a deck around. Otherwise... your deck has to keep a few other answers up its sleeves just in case, and the Counterbalance is more of a "heart of the cards" aspect than an actual wincon/strategy.
March 14, 2019 5:58 p.m.
March 14, 2019 1:58 a.m.
Most of the broken stuff that Shardless Agent does in legacy revolves around Brainstorm + Ancestral Vision which I guess isn't quite possible since Brainstorm isnt getting into modern any time soon (thanks to storm). I guess Shardless Agent might be ok in modern given how weak sultai is as a midrange deck (speaking as someone who has tried to make sultai midrange), and the fact that it has negative synergy with counter magics ( Counterspell to me might be one of the pushes sultai needs to finally make it as a control deck)... maybe I just play too much commander, but cascade and blue in the same deck scream "wombo combo" to me. I just don't know how to make it work in modern.
If someone can find a way to make Shardless Agent consistently hit Ancestral Vision , I have no doubt at all that Sultai could become the new best midrange deck, as sultai would absolutely never gas out, although it could have slightly weaker turns 1-4 than jund/abzan. Bear in mind that this is if and only if someone can find a way to make Shardless Agent consistently hit Ancestral Vision and only Ancestral Vision .
March 13, 2019 5:37 p.m.
TypicalTimmy part of the modern horizons announcement was that the set won't be reprinting any cards that are already modern legal. It's one of the bigger concerns with modern horizons actually: if this is the template for the bi-annual "print cards that won't hit standard" set, how will modern get its much needed reprints to keep prices down?
Currently... we have no clue how prices are going to be controlled, but some have theorized that ever so slight enactments of power creep might do the trick.
March 12, 2019 9:26 p.m.
lukas96 you may be absolutely correct about that, and modern may very well handle Counterspell just fine. Heck, Counterspell might even have a relatively minor impact on the meta. Counterspell just scares me on a conceptual level though, for the reasons I outlined in previous comments.
March 12, 2019 8:06 p.m. Edited.
lukas96 not exactly. If
is powerful enough, some decks may drop a tertiary color in order to pick it up, because no other color has a card which competes with
. Not saying this will happen, but what if abzan midrange became sultai midrange because
was just better than
Path to Exile
in that deck?
Decks that want good removal don't HAVE to play red, but decks that want good counter magic HAVE to play blue (as it has always been). If Counterspell is so good that a large number of decks finally decide that counter magic is worth playing, they have no choice but to play blue. Or as a more applicable example: what if grixis phoenix decks die out because Counterspell is just too good in the deck and they can't afford to carry the black splash while trying to hit the double blue pip, so now instead of having grixis and izzet phoenix decks we just have izzet?
Edit: to me that would be a bad change because it stifles diversity both on a macro level (more decks shift to blue) and a micro level (there's less room for build-to-build diversity among decks that play blue). Bolt on the other hand only stifles diversity on a micro level, as every deck that runs red wants to play bolt, but not every deck that wants removal has to play red for bolt.
March 12, 2019 7:56 p.m. Edited.
This deck feels gross. I actually think that slotting Oath of Nissa over Birds of Paradise was a perfect call. It helps fetch what you need and provides pseudo fixing for the only double-pipped card in the deck: Liliana of the Veil .
March 12, 2019 7:51 p.m.
PlatinumOne first off, it's not my intention to condescend you. sorry if it comes off that way. I try to keep my responses civil, perhaps I failed in this regard.
As far as "Modern can never have Counterspell ," I never stated this. I stated that Counterspell would outclass a great number of counter magics which currently see play, and outlined modern's current patterns regarding counter magic. None of that analysis was false, but rather formed the basis of why I don't believe Counterspell would be healthy for modern. It breaks all the old patterns/rules (although rules in this case is applied in the loosest way possible, considering WotC can make/revise/remove "rules" whenever they please). Those patterns aren't an accident. They exist because WotC adhered to them, and while they may decide that Counterspell might just be safe for modern, that doesn't change the veracity of the statement that "[traditionally] counterspells in modern cost 3, or 2 with a downside".
As far as "twisting" words goes, no, I am not doing this. Perhaps I didn't explain my thought process well enough, but my point was that even though Lightning Bolt IS the best red creature removal spell in modern (joke about Skred aside), it isn't THE BEST creature removal spell in modern. It has competition from Path to Exile , Fatal Push , Assassin's Trophy , Abrupt Decay , etc. Counterspell on the other hand wouldn't just be the best blue counter magic in modern. It would be the best counter magic in modern period. This leaves it with more room to warp the format than Lightning Bolt has, as Lightning Bolt at least has competition from other colors.
My goal with these posts isn't to be right or be rude. It's to point out patterns/technical differences that may be significant which others may have missed. I also tend to voice my opinion along the way. Perhaps sometimes I am not thorough enough at explaining myself, or fail to keep things civil. I apologize for ever failing to do so, however I never intend to be outright rude, nor do I ever intend to twist words.
PlatinumOne please stop asking me for statements from WotC that don't exist. It really bugs me because we all know those statements don't exist. WotC never stated that Death's Shadow Aggro was a Tier1 deck, but we don't need a statement from WotC in order to observe patterns. WotC never said they WILL print Counterspell in modern, and they never said they won't (yes I know they said they might), but I like to theorize based on available data. That's what forums are for, and I really don't appreciate when people attempt to invalidate my opinions and observations on a site built for vocalizing opinions and observations.
March 12, 2019 7:40 p.m. Edited.
Well... I can't argue with "They thought about printing it in dominaria" but I maintain that putting Counterspell in modern is still degenerate towards the diversity of any deck that plays Blue in the same way that pretty much every deck which plays Red runs Lightning Bolt . I guess we'll see if they decide to print it but... I honestly hope they don't.
March 11, 2019 9:11 p.m. Edited.
would like to know your location.
Also, Lightning Bolt is far from the best creature removal spell in modern. It's just a really good removal spell that also happens to occasionally remove opponents from the game. It's not the same comparison.
March 11, 2019 8:59 p.m. Edited.
As to whether or not Counterspell would be reprinted... I doubt it. Tolarian Community College did an excellent video about modern horizons, and covers why Counterspell shouldn't be reprinted, succinctly summarized as " Counterspell is strictly better than almost every modern legal counter spell in almost every deck that plays some form of counter magic". Exceptions might include shadow decks choosing to keep Stubborn Denial , but exceptions like that are very niche, and don't detract from the point.
The point of this set, as Emma Handy kindly pointed out, isn't to upgrade modern into a sort of "legacy lite." It's just to give modern new tools which might push the boundaries of what standard can handle. Counterspell isn't a "new tool" for modern. It's a strict upgrade to existing tools that are already heavily used. Somehow I doubt WotC wants to put that in modern, just on principle alone.
March 11, 2019 8:55 p.m. Edited.
PlatinumOne "'modern counterspells cost 3 mana, or 2 mana with a downside' and 'wotc is anti-land destruction', I'd have to see sources before I believe those."
Bro... do you even play modern? Even the lands that blow up other lands either replace the destroyed land with a basic ( Ghost Quarter ) or have a cost of at least to activate. Tectonic Edge is an exception, but that qualifies more as "land management" than "land destruction" considering that you have to leave your opponent with at least 3 lands. Smallpox / Boom come in at , but they're symetrical, and Assassin's Trophy replaces the destroyed land with a basic (which sort of defeats the point), so again, not exactly in the spirit of "wotc supports carte-blanche land destruction for 2 mana". Fulminator Mage lets you destroy non-basics for and Cryoclasm / Blood Moon / Choke are all hate cards against certain kinds of lands, but again your opponent gets around it by playing not the kind of land you're hating on, so it's not "true" land destruction. True land destruction (of the "Destroy target land. That's it." variety) TYPICALLY comes in at with cards like Craterize , Creeping Mold , and Avalanche Riders , but Molten Rain and Rain of Tears do exist at . Even with that, modern doesn't have any COMPETITIVE lists built around pure land destruction, which should tell you something about the support (or lack thereof) that WotC has been giving land destruction as a strategy compared with other strategies since 8th edition.
As for counter-spells, the first counter magics you can play which can target ANYTHING (meaning aren't faced with some restriction such as
which all fit the slot) are
and their ilk in the slot. The ONLY exception to this is
, but that's in white and sees next to no modern play, even in U/W control.
The first point blank "counter target spell and it goes to the yard" spells come in at with cards like Cancel , Dissolve , Dissipate , and their ilk.
If you would still like a source, here is mtgtop8's modern breakdown, which you will notice features no land destruction, and exactly 0 decks which use any "unconditional counter spells" which cost or less. The reason is that Land Destruction isn't competitively viable, and no carte blanche counters exists for less than ! If they did, the modern community would have found them by now, but instead, we find that WotC doesn't support these concepts and has been very careful not to print any cards that violate these patterns!
Welcome to modern by the way.
March 11, 2019 8:49 p.m.
PlatinumOne here, from a quick google search:
A California mother sued Nutella, stating that she felt misled by the company and had been serving the sugary tidbit to her child without realizing its unhealthy ingredients. Apparently, rather than simply reading the nutritional label, she decided to put all her faith in the company’s advertisements, a decision that ended up costing Nutella over $3 million.
Nutella losing over $3 million for promising Nutella is healthy even though they also provide a nutritional label which proves otherwise. And Nutella didn’t even promise. They just advertised it in a way that suggested it was healthy.
March 8, 2019 9:44 p.m. Edited.
As an example: I have a package of bacon, which I bought from Walmart. Based on their ingredient list, they are promising that the bacon contains ONLY bacon and some mild preservatives.
Unknown to me, an AIDS afflicted employee bled on that bacon. Before I eat the bacon, you express an interest in it, but it from me, and eat it. You now have AIDS.
Do you sue me, or Walmart? Walmart of course, they sourced the bacon, and they made the original promise that it would only have bacon in it. But that’s all they did. Promise it’s just bacon (and not AIDS)... and then they broke that promise.
You could argue for the financial hardship the disease will cause, but a secondary card vendor like Star City Games could argue financial hardship if wizards violated the reserve list.
Here’s my point: company/consumer interactions are all promises, because consumers can’t be expected to double check companies on every single thing. Therefore, corporate lawsuits are, at their core, punishments for violating promises to consumers. You can’t just say “that claim is baseless because it’s dumb”. In Ohio it’s illegal to push goats out of consumer class planes, and you can bet your ass that if you push a goat out of a plane in Ohio and it hits someone, you’re getting sued. Dumb? Yes. Legal? Also yes. Those two concepts live in entirely different realms. For your own safety, get it out of your head that people can’t sue you for the absolute dumbest stuff. They can and they will.
March 8, 2019 9:42 p.m.
PlatinumOne not quite. Stock is a %share of a company, and the value of the company is relative to how consumers view that company. Magic cards are static entities, (not %shares), although their value IS relative to supply/demand like any consumer good.
Here’s the difference: companies never promise their stock won’t go down. They never even promise that the value of their product will never depreciate. Why? Because breaking that promise could get them in legal trouble.
WotC is one of only a few companies that have ever made a promise to its consumers with massive financial ramifications.
Again, please, if I’m wrong, show me one, just one instance of a company promising that it’s product will retain a certain value, violating that promise, and not getting sued into the shadow realm.
March 8, 2019 9:31 p.m.
PlatinumOne there's a big difference between "legal" and "sensible". Courts follow laws and uphold them, whether the laws seem fair and "just" or not. If there are legal grounds for the secondary card market to leverage a law suit against WotC, a law-suit will be had. And unless you can show me that there is NO way at all that violating the reserve list could be a considered a legal infringement, someone WILL sue, regardless of whether or not it seems dumb to sue because "the big bad company broke a promise, wah wah wah".
March 8, 2019 1:29 p.m. Edited.
I want Form of the Squirrel . If I can't have that, I want Baleful Strix . If I can't have either... I wanna say I won't buy anything from the set... but I'm sure at least one commander bomb will be in there that I just HAVE to have.
March 7, 2019 9:27 p.m.
So... I'm guessing based on your not quite a question that YOU want to play a deck revolving around these cards, and that you either don't know where to start, don't care enough to actually try to put it together yourself, or just plain would prefer someone else do the work for you and let you buy the finished product.
At the very least, this is how "Make this deck, go! also make it good and for under 500$" comes across. That's a statement I expect to hear from my boss at work, not from someone on an MTG forum.
With that aside, I'm going to assume it's the former of the three, that you just don't really know where to start, and have a genuine interest in this deck beyond simply acquiring/playing it. If that's the case, I'd recommend looking the cards up on EDHRec and seeing what comes up, or even looking them up on tappedout and seeing what kinds of decks they are in so that you can at least assemble a rough draft.
Once you have that, many users on this site would be happy to help you refine the list and make it "fucking disgusting".
Just be careful about phrasing... Your thread makes it sound kind of like you think this site's users are a bunch of basement dwellers with nothing better to do than make decks for other people. Not that I particularly care that you assume that, but rather that it doesn't exactly make me want to build a deck for you.
Tl;Dr: Make a rough draft, then I'd be happy to help.
March 6, 2019 8:19 p.m.
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|Playing since||Ravnica: City of Guilds|
|Avg. deck rating||18.20|
|Favorite formats||Commander / EDH, Modern|
|Good Card Suggestions||130|
|Venues||casual play, FNM Venue|
|Last activity||4 days|