Does Planar Cleansing affect indestructible creatures?
Asked by SoulCalibur 12 years ago
Actually, does any board wipe card affect an indestructible?
For instance, say you have a Phylactery Lich on the field tied with Darksteel Citadel . If Planar Cleasing is used, would Phylactery Lich be destroyed?
Also, how about Avacyn, Angel of Hope ? If this card is on the field, would Planar Cleansing destroy this card?
Rhadamanthus says... #2
The two things that destroy are lethal damage (including deathtouch damage) and effects that specifically say "destroy". Being indestructible stops those things from happening. It doesn't offer any defense against other things that might cause something to die or otherwise leave the battlefield.
May 13, 2013 10:15 a.m.
The only way to remove an indestructible creature from the game is by forcing the player to sacrifice it (Geth's Verdict ) reducing it's toughness to 0 via -x/0-x cards (Tragic Slip /Black Sun's Zenith ) or by exiling it (Oblivion Ring etc)
May 13, 2013 10:29 a.m.
A note should also state that lethal damage isn't received from combat only. You can't say Shock a Darksteel Myr
May 13, 2013 11:10 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #6
DancesWithGoblins - a minor, but occasionally significant nitpick: Indestructible creatures do still receive damage. SBAs won't destroy them for having lethal damage, but the damage is still marked on them. This matters if they manage to lose their indestructibility before the damage falls off at the end of the turn somehow (for instance, if a bunch of knights are getting protected by a Knight Exemplar who's then eliminated). At that point, SBAs will destroy them as normal, since the lethal damage is still marked on them.
May 13, 2013 11:20 a.m.
GoTeamJosh says... #7
MagnorCriol - Are you saying that if I have an army of Knights that are currently indestructible because of Knight Exemplar and a Wrath of God is cast, ALL of my Knights are going to die because Knight Exemplar died thus causing them to lose their indestructibility or will only the Knight Exemplar die that turn because you're referring to a situation that's completely different from the one that I just stated?
May 13, 2013 11:31 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
He's talking about something different. The effect of a resolving Wrath is processed all at once, and just the Exemplar will die. Damage, however, stays on a creature until the cleanup step. If the Exemplar goes away before then, any Knights with lethal damage marked on them will end up getting destroyed.
May 13, 2013 11:37 a.m.
The "destroy" effect of the Wrath of God is a one-time thing. All creatures in play will be destroyed at once; if any of them are indestructible, then they are not destroyed. In the situation you just described, only the Knight Exemplar would die, the rest of the knights would live.
What MagnorCriol was talking about was a situation like this: You have your knights and the exemplar, and someone casts Chain Reaction dealing massive damage to all creatures. ALL creatures will get damage marked on them until the end of turn. The lone Knight Exemplar will receive lethal damage and will be destroyed; the next time a player receives priority, state-based actions will see the damage marked on the no longer indestructible knights, and they will be destroyed also. They all die in the end, but a split second after the Knight Exemplar , which would matter in case a card like Blood Artist or Harvester of Souls was on the field, for example.
May 13, 2013 11:38 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #10
An indestructible creature cannot be destroyed by destroy effects, so board wipes that say destroy will do nothing to them.
In the case of the lich, the artifact with the counter on it gets destroyed by Planar Cleansing and that would mean the lich gets sacrificed, so he wouldnt survive it.
May 13, 2013 11:38 a.m.
GoTeamJosh in that instance only Knight Exemplar would be destroyed since your other knights were indestructible.
As to what MagnorCriol said is also wrong. And that is only because of DotP to aid in showing how much more it would take to kill something, here's an example to help showcase my point. Darksteel Juggernaut is 5/5 he's been blocked by a creature with power 3. The game shows him as a 5/2 (which makes you think that a Black Sun's Zenith for 2 would kill it right?) which is wrong since it can never have damage marked on him The Zenith would make hime a 3/3 with 3 damage marked on it which is lethal, but not destroyed because of indestructibility
May 13, 2013 11:40 a.m.
Schuesseled, not in the case he described; Darksteel Citadel is a land, as well as indestructible itself. The land would have to be exiled or sacrificed.
May 13, 2013 11:40 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #13
ah right my bad, he's fine if paired with an indestructible artifact.
May 13, 2013 11:42 a.m.
DukeNicky, that's not correct.
First off, damage marked on a creature does not lower the creature's toughness. A 5/5 with 3 damage marked on it is not a 5/2, it is a 5/5.
Indestructible creatures CAN have damage marked on them, and it stays there until the end of turn in the same way as any creature. The only difference is that a 5/5 indestructible could have 3289423 damage marked on it, and it would not be destroyed. A 5/5 indestructible with 3 damage marked on it and two -1/-1 counters on it would also not be destroyed; it would be a 3/3 indestructible with two damage marked on it. A regular 5/5 with 3 damage marked on it and two -1/-1 counters on it WOULD be destroyed.
May 13, 2013 11:44 a.m.
That was exactly what I said Goody, although it may've not been quite clear
May 13, 2013 11:46 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #18
Didn't expect to necro a thread into a storm. I need to be clearer with my posts, apparently.
DukeNicky - what I said isn't incorrect. It doesn't have anything to do with DotP's method of displaying marked damage. While none of what you just explained is wrong, it doesn't have any relation other than subject matter to what I was saying.
In your situation, the Juggernaut doesn't die either way (whether he's a 5/5 with 3 damage or whether he gets BSZ'd down into a 3/3 with 3 damage marked on him), because he's still indestructible. What I was talking about is that the damage is still marked on it and how that's important, because if something causes it to lose its indestructibility - difficult with a Juggernaut, but pretty easy with a Knight Exemplar - then it will die as normal since the damage is still there.
May 13, 2013 11:48 a.m.
SoulCalibur says... #19
Wow, I did not anticipate such detailed responses to this question.
May 13, 2013 11:54 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #20
@DukeNicky: Everything MagnorCriol said was right. It looks like you're talking about yet another completely different topic.
May 13, 2013 12:11 p.m.
clcoleman15 says... #21
Wrath of God will kill a indestructible. Creature cause it says they cannot be regenerated
May 13, 2013 12:16 p.m.
clcoleman15 indestructible isn't the same as regeneration
May 13, 2013 12:17 p.m.
@clcoleman15, indestructibility prevents "Destroy" effects from destroying a creature, and prevents lethal damage from destroying it as well. Regeneration is a bit different in that it taps the creature, removes all damage from it, and removes it from combat, if the creature would be destroyed that turn. Which is why many stright destruction effects stipulate that the creature can't be regenerated. Wrath of God , Damnation , etc. all stipulate that creatures destroyed with it can't be regenearated. Planar Cleansing , on the other hand, does not, and thus creatures with regeneration shields can actually pull through (by tapping and having all damage removed from them, which is still different from indestructible creatures which are just straight-up safe).
May 13, 2013 2:58 p.m.
Since no one bothered to answer the second part of the original question I'll just throw this here unrelated to the current discussion :)
Merciless Eviction
is an example of a wrath effect that removes indestructible creatures. Since it exiles instead of destroying indestructibility does nothing against it.
May 14, 2013 3:30 a.m.
Sharpthrower says... #25
I always said it should put these creatures into graveyards rather than destroying them
May 14, 2013 10:08 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #26
That would just end up being way more confusing, as evidenced by this entire conversation.
DancesWithGoblins says... Accepted answer #1
No. A property of the word indestructible is that it cannot be destroyed. Or receive lethal combat damage.
It can be exiled, sacrificed and go to the graveyard due to having zero toughness though.
May 13, 2013 10:07 a.m.