New Jace in Standard
Standard forum
Posted on June 27, 2014, 3:08 p.m. by CommanderOfBolas
Basically, I would like to talk about where Jace, the living guildpact would fit well after he is released. if this belongs in SRS, I apologize, Epoch. Anyway, I think he would be good in a very removal heavy deck. something that focuses on keeping the board clear. his ult allows you to recycle all of your used cards while filling up your hand, which could be very powerful if you can keep the board clear. as of right now, I am thinking some sort of U/R based deck, using Anger of the Gods to limit what your opponent gets back. Keranos, God of Storms can act as repeatable burn (which Jace can help set up with his +1). What do you guys think? viable?
SaumusThe3rd says... #3
Frankly I think he's ok in U/B Reanimate, but I am a little annoyed that they printed a new Ajani, a new Jace, a new Nissa, And didn't Bother to reprint a new Lilliana! Lilliana is the only walker of the lorwyn 5 that hasn't been reprinted at least 4 times!
Just sayin...
June 27, 2014 3:13 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #4
SaumusThe3rd, there have been concerns in R&D that none of the Lilianas do what lore-wise Lili's supposed to do- necromance (is that a word?). Vess is the only Lili that's sort-of correct in that regard.
June 27, 2014 3:17 p.m.
I think the new Jace will be good in pretty much any control shell, but really powerful in a tempo midrange deck. Fixing draws every turn for that kind of deck is already invaluable, and he can bounce permanents if need be, not to mention his ult is GG. Perhaps UWR?
June 27, 2014 3:27 p.m.
I'm with the camp that the Living Guildpact version of Jace might fit better in a tempo deck than control deck. That said I think people will try him in U/W/x control until Khans and see how it works. In his article LSV already talks about playing him on Turn 4 and bouncing a Nightveil Specter
or Desecration Demon
the minute he comes down, which isn't a bad idea. If we go through the checklist of what a Planeswalker needs to do note that he 1.) protects himself with his -3, and YES it needs to be a -3 not a -2; 2.) he impacts the board, mainly through his -3 but his +1 can also provide some advantage in decks that want that; 3.) His ultimate wins the game, let's be honest, a one-sided Timetwister
will always be good when you have 7 cards in hand and your opponent has none.
Is he better than Jace, Architect of Thought ? Unlikely, but he isn't the shitbag everyone claims he is.
June 27, 2014 3:54 p.m.
SaumusThe3rd says... #7
GoldGhost12, I see your point. However, they could still have made a Liliana that was similar to vess, for example, a discard one that works with the graveyard. possibly having an ability similar to Havengul Lich . I think that would be cool myself.
And on the topic of Jace, at least they didn't reprint Jace, the Mind Sculptor . That would have caused the world to end.
June 27, 2014 4:18 p.m.
AnagonLordofSnakes says... #8
Does anyone else feel than this jace is force-fed and largely forgettable? I'm pretty unhappy with him
June 27, 2014 4:20 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #10
Yard-heavy BUG builds...or a card filterer in control...even stuff with flashback. And his ult is pretty darned decent.
June 27, 2014 4:51 p.m.
Lilli and the new Jace together in BUG.....i see it happening just because of the ult of each. See it happening because I plan on trying it out. The new Jace opens up some new combo ideas, but most don't see that because they are so use to Jace, Architect of Thought
June 27, 2014 5:15 p.m.
LordOfDispair says... #12
I am actually quite unhappy with jace and some of the other walkers as a grixis player. The nissa and ajani are pretty cool, but they chose to reprint the least interesting liliana (I would have prefered a new liliana or Sorin Markov ). The jace is even worse. Its +1 is nice for filtering and filling the graveyard but his -3 is mostly just a desperation answer to a card since its about a 1 mana effect for 3 loyalty counters. His -8 is kinda cool but it seems like mostly what he's all about is getting to that quickly, where planeswalkers like Liliana of the Veil , Chandra, the Firebrand , and Garruk Wildspeaker which work better with a combination of +1ing and -2/3ing I find to be much more interesting.
I also would have preferred a firebrand reprint for chandra, although its not the worst thing they could have done (I'm so glad they didn't reprint Chandra Nalaar )
just my 2 cents
June 27, 2014 8:26 p.m.
Rise of the Dark Realms is the think i thought of single in controlish build. ult new jace into this. just for 1 month of fun. put Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in it too.
ults make opponents have no hand.
Liliana Vess kills opponents hand and fetches Rise of the Dark Realms when required.
sad thing is all are 5+drops...
well atleast standard is supposed to be slower so perhaps
June 28, 2014 10:09 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #15
Sagi007: ....Jace shuffles the graveyards back into the deck....
June 28, 2014 11 a.m.
I don't know. Is Spellheart Chimera competitive-usable?
July 1, 2014 6:11 a.m.
Other than that, I feel a Grixis build of some sort is most likely. Possibly BUG.
July 1, 2014 6:25 a.m.
Meh. I just don't see him becoming huge in Standard. His +1 is a bit of quality control for your draws, but I think he's underpowered on his first and second ability.
I don't see him getting played unless we get really desperate for card advantage in Standard.
July 1, 2014 11:49 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #19
Zandl: he is not meant for card advantage. He is meant for tempo. He filters draws, which is ok. He bounces non land permanents, which is really good, and his ult is a game winner. Combine all that with cards like aether twister and other countermagic, and you have a decent tempo deck. The control route is possible, but he will shine best in a tempo shell
July 1, 2014 12:28 p.m.
Speaking of Tempo, I really hope cantrips are a big thing in the near future, primarily because of Horizon Chimera and Chasm Skulker (especially the latter).
And even though I mentioned some possibilities, he's definitely not becoming a thing in Standard without a bunch of additions (which, coincidentally, are on their way).
July 1, 2014 12:51 p.m.
That's kinda what I'm getting at, though. He doesn't go anywhere right now as there really is no viable tempo deck to build. This could obviously change but we'd have to see a pretty different Standard for a 4-drop "worse-than-Scry-2" with a sorcery-speed Disperse to be playable.
GoldGhost012 says... #2
Definitely viable somewhere. I don't buy into the belief he will suck. I think people are complaining because he doesn't fit into a traditional control shell. He's much more niche than other Jaces, but I can see him excelling wherever he finds a home.
June 27, 2014 3:12 p.m.