[Community Discussion]: Modern Chat
Modern forum
Posted on April 25, 2015, 8:42 p.m. by Epochalyptik
This thread is dedicated entirely to Modern. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
GeminiSpartanX says... #2
I feel like since the printing of Fatal Push, shadow decks aren't as oppressive as they could have been. It's another undercosted beater just like goyf, and gets hit by all the same removal. It's just the newer face of fair midrange decks like Jund was before. I actually think that an esper control deck has a good chance in the current meta, since I've been stomped by one recently and it felt like it had all the right answers.
June 27, 2017 6:45 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #3
I built UTron Thopter. It's actually a standard UTron deck but with 3 Thopter foundry, 1 sword of the meek, and Fabricate over Treasure mage.
Holding up 7 mana for a condescend while having Thopter sword in play is hilarious
June 27, 2017 8:03 a.m.
tlhunter07 says... #4
@GeminiSpartanX, that comment about Esper was all that I needed to hear :)
June 27, 2017 10:30 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #5
Esper control is a slower and less resilient Jeskai. You can make it work.
June 27, 2017 11:13 a.m.
So I guess people think running Rest in Peace in Affinity is a good idea now...
Why exactly I have no idea... but I'm pretty sure Arcbound Ravager has something to say about it.
June 27, 2017 11:22 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #7
It's a good plan against Storm and Dredge. 1 card in the Affinity list gets ruined in exchange for winning the game.
June 27, 2017 11:25 a.m.
It's a bomb card in the list though. It's equally a card that wins the game due to sheer explosive power. Seems like a rough trade.
June 27, 2017 11:30 a.m.
The reason why is because Dredge is virtually unwinnable for Affinity without RiP. Losing access to Ravager shenanigans is worth not needing them in the first place in that matchup. It's not quite as good against something like Shadow, but still playable.
June 27, 2017 11:41 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #10
Claim to Fame --> Death's Shadow decks. That's about it.
June 27, 2017 3:48 p.m.
To answer your questions:
As GlistenerAgent noted, Claim // Fame will probably get some run in Shadow decks, though I'm not quite sure at the expense of what. Someone somewhere will probably try a deck with Solemnity, though I'm not sure what you can get out of it that Vizier of Remedies couldn't already provide.
Grixis Control basically doesn't exist anymore. Grixis Shadow is far and away the best thing you can be doing in those colors. Living End, on the other hand, has been performing reasonably well. It's parlayed those new cyclers into a Tier 2 spot in our latest tier list.
June 27, 2017 5:02 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #12
Grixis Kiln Fiend seems excellent with Claim to Fame
June 27, 2017 7:58 p.m.
tlhunter07 says... #13
@SwaggyMcSwagglepants, that sounds hellish. GKF is the new thing.
June 27, 2017 8:08 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #14
Also @rothgar13 Grixis Delver has a great matchup against shadow. You're both playing the same game (tons of removal and disruption with efficient threats) but Delver not only out-controls shadow but can incidently bolt-snap bolt them for the win.
June 27, 2017 8:20 p.m. Edited.
Has there been an effective deck built that focus around the 3 artifact empire cards? I thought about building 1 but I'm not sure if it is a waste of an idea.
June 27, 2017 10:38 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #16
Why play Kiln Fiend when Death's Shadow exists and is better?
June 27, 2017 10:44 p.m.
Grixis Delver may be able to do stuff against Shadow, but I hesitate to say it has a "great" matchup when it has a well-documented weakness to discard (as evidenced by the fact that it never got over the conventional hump), which is something Shadow has in spades. And it's certainly not better against the field, because it's not nearly as efficient as Shadow. There's really not much reason to do Grixis anything except Shadow at the moment from the competitive standpoint. That said, the fact that you're mentioning jank like Kiln Fiend leads me to believe that max competitiveness isn't really your focus, so maybe you don't care about this.
June 27, 2017 11:01 p.m. Edited.
JexInfinite says... #19
SwaggyMcSwagglepants Because Kiln Fiend dies very easily and requires a far greater turn-by-turn investment to make powerful. Death's Shadow gets big and stays big, meaning resources can be allocated to disruption.
June 27, 2017 11:49 p.m.
BrandonJamesCAC says... #20
Just popping in on the GDS/DSJ topic...
I think Esper Control or it's "Quicker" cousin Jeskai.
Play bad cards like Condemn and Devour Flesh
June 29, 2017 3:16 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #21
Running mediocre standard cards, even as a sideboard plan, is a weak strategy.
June 29, 2017 8:57 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #22
It's reasonable. Condemn is great against Shadow, and fine against other decks where you want removal.
June 29, 2017 10:37 a.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #23
@rothgar13 At this point, it's hard to keep a hand in the modern format without knowing its resilient to Shadows hand attack suite. Also, Snapcasters reduce the effects of discard. In addition, I play the Overturf style of the deck which cuts the cute cards like Pyromancer for more countermagic and disruptive cards. Maybe great is hyperbolic, but the Shadow matchup is probably around 60-40 delver in my opinion. As for the Jund matchup, with my configuration, I think it's 50-50. The only threat in their deck I have an issue dealing with is LotV.
@JexInfinite Shadow is a strictly better card, but in a Suicide Blue deck with Mutagenic Growths and Temur Battle Rages, seems like splashing black for Shadow and Claim to Fame is good. Also,Thing in the Ice Flip doesn't bounce Death's Shadow.
June 29, 2017 11:46 a.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #24
(sorry for double-post)
Dismissing a deck as unplayable jank isn't a good way to find the best deck. Amulet Titan and Grishoalbrand were dismissed for 2 years as unplayable jank and then tore up GPs. Suicide Blue was a deck pre-Probe banning, and with some new tech, it might come back as a good deck.
June 29, 2017 12:03 p.m.
BrandonJamesCAC says... #25
It's funny you mention suicide black. I was playtesting with random cards and came to realize, as I've never played a Death's Shadow deck, how easy it is to get to 7 life.
I know it's late to the party but damn, it is good.
June 29, 2017 12:13 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #26
I think it would work. TITI is more of a when its safe to play card than a play as soon as possible kind of card.
June 29, 2017 6:52 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #27
Well, with Claim to Fame, that hyper aggro deck seems really strong. Maybe fiend is a little too much but the concept of a dump your hand mutagenic growth spells matter comboish style is something that should be tinkered with.
June 29, 2017 9:24 p.m.
I disagree with that. Even with Claim, you're still too soft to spot removal and discard to make it worth playing.
June 30, 2017 10:01 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #29
Enigma Drake is pretty strong. The new version of that deck is obviously different, but is a little more resilient than before.
June 30, 2017 11:17 a.m.
I like Enigma Drake, but that card seems most at home in a classic Delver style of deck, which is frankly under-explored in this metagame.
June 30, 2017 12:28 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #31
A lot of control decks, if they choose their removal wisely can have a great DS matchup. I find Roast to be extraordinary in my Skred list for this reason.
That being said, the new hour of devastation split card that glistner mentioned before will cause a bit of issues for decks that aren't packing much grave hate.
July 2, 2017 1:17 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #32
Last I checked, Corey Burkhart has lost just a couple matches to Shadow in what must be 40+ matches played against it.
Your exclusion of Ancestral Vision is kind of weird, especially given that your deck has some weaker cards in the main.
July 2, 2017 1:54 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #33
How many Ceremonious Rejections should Grixis have in its sideboard? 3? Or just 2
July 4, 2017 4:32 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #34
I've been running 3 but haven't faced any tron variant since adding them. So basically I don't know. Instinctively, you want at least 3 because those matchups tend to be pretty bad.
July 4, 2017 9:26 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #35
Yeah I don't like the magma spray much in my sideboard at the current moment, so I think maybe another could improve the tron matchup (which my pptq meta has a lot of)
Weirdly enough, I think keeping the playset of bolts in Grixis is very important after sideboarding. The only real way to win is hope you can disrupt them enough while you try to pummel them with awkward creatures. The bolts are actually fairly decisive in who wins the game.
July 4, 2017 11:46 p.m.
TheAlexGnan he hasn't been on for months I know, is the account gone?
July 13, 2017 2:31 p.m.
I was a friend with him on here and now he's gone, so I'm going to assume yes.
I know he had a lot going on IRL.
July 13, 2017 4:01 p.m. Edited.
EverythingIsK says... #39
He pops onto the t/o discord every couple months. It's always a pleasure to hear from him. He's doing very well nowadays.
July 13, 2017 6:55 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #40
Does anybody think Temur Emerge could be a deck in Modern? I think the Kozilek's Return/Elder Deep-Fiend "combo" is really good plus there are a bunch of good value creatures to emerge like Satyr Wayfinder and Vendilion Clique
July 13, 2017 8:09 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #41
I want it to work soooo badly, because I play it in Standard, but I just don't think it's going to get there. It's a little slow, and GY hate is very strong in Modern. Maybe T2.5, but not much better than that.
July 13, 2017 8:13 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #42
Hmm. Maybe if shadow gets banned graveyard hate will go down since there should be less leylines?
Also there's probably going to be a sideboard plan of taking out Traverses and any Emrakuls for hate cards.
Ill build the deck and get opinions. Maybe make it an article?
July 13, 2017 10:19 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #45
Because no new standard player enjoys having their pile of garbage bombs countered by a sleek blue deck, so wizard has to give them an easy dumb way of dodging the blue menace.
Of course, the new player could learn to be a good player and lower their curve and play smart, but no that doesn't put money in WOTC pocket.
Basically it exists for the same reason there is no good removal or counters in standard right now. Because WOTC caters to new players that play standard.
Of course this is cynical speculation on my part. I didn't play during ISD. If anyone has real reasoning, please give a better reason.
July 14, 2017 2:54 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #46
Because in standard mana leak and snapcaster were legal at the same time.
July 14, 2017 3 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #47
Yeah, why did they print Timely Reinforcements man. And Ancient Grudge? What the hell, why are there cards that are good against my deck. :/ Sucks that they print these cards specifically to screw with my Modern experience.
Cavern of Souls was widely considered egregious when it came out, since it was so polarizing for Standard decks at the time. Tribal decks are cool for a lot of people, and Innistrad in particular had interesting tribes worth exploring in Block Constructed or Standard.
Also, the concept is just interesting. That card sees play in so many decks where you wouldn't expect it, like Miracles and Twin and Standard Jund decks, where people stretch the function of the card to suit a metagame. Just printing another werewolf is less interesting.
July 14, 2017 3:12 p.m.
So much butthurt for Cavern on this thread. I'd say it was primarily aimed at Legacy, where creature decks don't accomplish much without it. It's not even a big deal in Modern, since so few decks rely heavily on countermagic. And if you are trying to do so, you have much bigger issues than just Cavern. And it's not like control is doing poorly - Control is currently Tier 1 by adding prison elements to its game, and Jeskai is not far behind, thanks to its aggressive CounterBurn build.
July 14, 2017 5:23 p.m. Edited.
Ohthenoises says... #50
It was originally intended for standard. Just saying, wotc doesn't print stuff for eternal formats. They constantly say so and you can tell when something like Vizir of remedies is printed.
Dredge4life says... #1
How would an Esper thopter gifts deck look at the moment? I'm getting rid of Grixis delver tonight, and I'm either building that or Mono U Tron.
June 27, 2017 6:43 a.m.