In terms of functionality, is there any purpose to waiting until an end step to crack your fetchland
General forum
Posted on June 12, 2022, 3:02 p.m. by TypicalTimmy
I almost feel like this became a thing because of Command Zone, but I'm not entirely sure. And since fetchlands exist in nearly all formats (With Standard coming and going), this is going in General.
If I have out a Misty Rainforest, and perhaps I am playing Sultai, I have many options I can grab. Aside from just the basics of Forest and Island I also have all of the shocklands, Zagoth Triome and anything else that may have those subtypes.
If I do not need my mana, perhaps because I have 3 - 5 MV spells in hand and this is my first land of the game, it would make sense to get Zagoth Triome as it ETB tapped, but I have nothing to spend mana on, so having a tapped land is perfectly fine.
Likewise, if I have no ability or intention to play anything, grabbing a Watery Grave and letting it ETB tapped is fine as well.
Now, you could point out that you can prevent your opponent from having "information". For example, if I elect to grab Overgrown Tomb, I likely will not be able to cast any blue counterspells since I do not have blue mana. This point is regardless of if Tomb is ETB tapped or not. However, it goes back to my original point:
- If you have NO ability or intention to cast a spell, having it ETB tapped is fine.
So, why even wait until an end step? It literally makes zero sense.
The only thing I can think of is "waiting to see how the board develops". Like, oh maybe I need that extra now that Kevin's commander came out, so I can Path to Exile it. However, this can easily be done just by assessing the boardstate and what you have in hand. You don't need to "wait" to understand threats and interactions. Plan ahead.
wallisface says... #3
So, there can be a few reasons:
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even if you can’t cast anything, your opponent doesn’t know that. While you have the fetchland, you still represent being able to do something
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if your opponent can manipulate or view your topdeck, you can undo that information/manipulation
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the longer it takes to reveal information to your opponent, like the land you’re grabbing, the longer it takes for the opponent to figure out the deck you’re playing & its colours (i imagine this is less important in edh where your commander already reveals all this info?)
June 12, 2022 3:35 p.m.
The more competitive the setting is, the better it is to wait until the last moment to crack a fetchland. In Modern, do you need to cast Veil of Summer? Or Spell Pierce? Or Unholy Heat? Or none of the above and you can safely get a land without paying life. It's common knowledge that gets passed around (think about telling someone they can cast Opt on the opponent's end step and not on their main phase) and probably a habit people don't think about. Lord knows in Limited I've had plenty of people play Evolving Wilds on turn 1 and wait for my end step to crack it.
In casual multiplayer settings, or if we're talking about an Evolving Wilds or something where your land doesn't come in tapped... Just save the whole table your shuffling time.
June 12, 2022 4:22 p.m.
I feel like it's just one of those slight ways to possibly impact the board without actually spending any resources, and that's why people do it. 99% of the time it will make no difference in how the game plays out, in any way, and bump it up to 100% in casual. But yeah, it's kind of a mind game. Say you have the option of getting or during an opponent's turn. They could think twice about casting their combo because you could get for a counter, or they could think twice about casting Llanowar Elves because you might get for Lightning Bolt or something. That makes them think double twice : ) In reality though, it probably does less for you than deck thinning, and that's a low bar to get under.
For me, I find it best to crack anything like that on my own end step and search while the next player is drawing. Because as much as waiting might be a slight buff to your game, playing with curtesy is also a slight buff to your game.
June 12, 2022 5:48 p.m.
And, not to divert the conversation too much, but speaking of Command Zone, is it just me or is it hard to watch the new GK eposides? I feel like it got to some point where the guests are an advertisement, the decks are an advertisement, and the advertisements are the most fun part of the show : ) I think they are great, and they've always made a really special thing, but I can't watch it anymore. Even after I wasn't feeling it I said, well I'll try the next one, and it just wasn't like the old episodes with a group of friends playing a game.
Which is why I will probably be doomed/appreciative to watch Janklord reruns on a loop : )
June 12, 2022 6:16 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #7
I do agree GK has become almost unbearable to watch. They have episodes where it's some Card Kingdom or Ultra Pro commercial / advertisement seemingly every 10-15 minutes. Which I get it, they have bills to pay.
Well, whose fault is it they set up shop in California?
Regardless of location, it is incredibly bothersome to play it as a podcast while driving or cleaning and losing focus of the game because every 10-15 minutes, a 3-4 minute "funny" advertisement plays. None of their jokes are funny, clever or inspiring. They are all bottom-of-the-barrel nonsense and their sense of "humor" isn't even really puns such much as forced double entendre. Like, "Why don't you ROLL THE DICE and buy some Commander Legends"
Like we get it, ha ha dice so funny.
- and their constant attempt to animate every legendary spell is so annoying, too
June 12, 2022 8:08 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #8
In competitive formats it gives an advantage to represent any spell in the deck and in Modern you can decide if you need the shock you are inevitably fetching tapped or untapped. Even if you don't have a spell to cast, your opponents don't know this and denying information for as long as possible generates real advantage (unlike thinning). It also allows you to play around Blood Moon for as long as possible.
Since you specifically mentioned GK despite posting in the general forum, it is either habit or people try harding in casual formats. Unless I need to decide between triome/shock/ABUR dual depending on board state I will almost always announce what I am fetching and pass the turn. Sometimes I will even announce what I am fetching, cast a spell with the land I have not yet grabbed and pass the turn. In EDH I am all about making the game flow go as fast as possible. No one wants to sit doing nothing for 5+ minutes as they wait for opponents to make decisions or just look through their deck.
June 12, 2022 9:10 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #9
Knowing whether or not you need to play around nonbasic hate; seeing if you get wheeled and your fetch target changes based on the cards on your hand; not telegraphing that you're tapped out; waiting to see if someone else gets Oppo'd or Mindcensored; waiting to see if any effect stacks the top of your library in any way. There's a lot of good reasons, but it's often a consideration between hoping you don't get Oppo'd and the relative value of the other things.
June 12, 2022 9:29 p.m.
If you are holding up something like Spell Pierce, a fetch and no open mana, cracking prematurely could give your opponent the chance to resolve and instant. That's just one example. Another example could be if your opponent Fateseals you and leaves the card on top, leaving the fetch open as long as possible would let you recycle whatever bad card is on top of your deck.
June 12, 2022 9:52 p.m. Edited.
TypicalTimmy That's very true about the animations. I guess sometimes it feels like the show took the spotlight away from the cast, and that's disappointing because the best parts of GK have always been the people. I do think that brewing limitation episodes would really help break up the formula. Like, not even hard limits, but every now and then if there were episodes where people had to build decks, get out of their comfort zone, and have fun turning their minds to the game, it might add some passion and excitement. Because, let's face it, the precons are designed for players who are getting into commander, and having constant precon episodes will only phase viewers out as they get more into the format and need precons less and less.
But I am really glad that there is a lot of magic channels now that do games that are easy to follow. When GK first came out, magic was hard to watch, and they made huge waves in how to do an episode of something magic. It was really amazing : ) But, the trouble is that that puzzle has been solved, and now it's up to the show to carry the show, and the show got honestly kinda weird.
June 12, 2022 10:15 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #12
In competitive, 60 card formats, waiting to crack your fetch is important. You don’t know what your opponent is playing, because they don’t have a commander. All you see is a fetch land. It could be U/w control, or it could be Ad Nauseam Combo.
Also, imagine cracking your fetch land on your turn, letting it ETB tapped and your opponent just destroys it with a Wasteland. Turn wasted.
Last_Laugh says... #2
Fetches I'll typically crack whenever. I'll only wait if the extra life for an untapped shock is questionable but needed for a potential instant speed answer I have in hand (i.e. Teferi's Protection and Mana Drain in hand but can only get to double blue OR white mana so I wait).
It's mainly top of deck tutors that have the necessity of being cast right before your turn so it's not milled or whatever.
June 12, 2022 3:29 p.m.