New Teferi for Commander
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on July 26, 2014, 3:57 p.m. by ChiefBell
What do you think? Good? Bad?
Personally I think he's ok. Very, very powerful but costs 6 mana which is fair enough. Although I feel that he might give a bit too much value to control decks.
chrishuffman95 says... #3
Oh dear god, I missed his ultimate. And I thought that his -1 was busted.
I want it for EDH so bad. 6 mana for a repeatable source of Sleight of Hand, a -1 that untaps 4 of whatever I want, and that sick ultimate. I will be disappointed if there's no other planeswalkers in this box.
...It is mono blue, so JTMS confirmed in it?
... I can dream, right? T_T
July 26, 2014 4:08 p.m.
I think Wizards should perhaps consider stepping the fuck away from Commander.
July 26, 2014 4:09 p.m.
TheFanatic says... #5
I don't like the idea of planeswalkers as commanders. It's a good card and all, but it just seems to mess with the format too much to allow noncreature commanders.
July 26, 2014 4:16 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #6
I don't see how it does, I think it's a neat interaction. Plus each deck apparently comes with a Legendary creature, as well, so you don't have to run the 'walker as the Commander, since it's just as useful in the 99. (This coming from the fact that the face card for each deck will be a planeswalker according to the panel, as well as the Gisa spoiler.)
July 26, 2014 4:20 p.m.
I like him as a non-commander for commander. Does that make sense?
July 26, 2014 4:27 p.m.
thewinetaster1 says... #8
Do not like that "you can play this as commander" bullshit wizards is doing, commander is perfect the way it is, dont fuck with it
July 26, 2014 4:29 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #9
There's no need to be so negative about it, though. Why can't Wizards try out new things? Plus, planeswalkers sell, regardless of whether or not people like this mechanic.
July 26, 2014 4:33 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #10
I hope the powers that be veto Wizards and ban these guys as commanders. That's ridiculous.
Other than that, Teferi seems bonkers. Obviously going in the superfriends edh decks...
July 26, 2014 4:36 p.m.
It gives WAY too much advantage to have that as a commander. All of the abilities are relevant are powerful, and it's a fantastic card. It's utterly ridiculous that you can have that as a recastable part of your deck. I really hope that this madness gets banned promptly.
July 26, 2014 4:48 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #12
I agree with most of this thread. PW commanders are lame. Mainly because in order to make them not broken:
They can't be too powerful. Recurring PWs are extremely good, so their abilities are forced to be mediocre.
There can't be a Green PW. Because Doubling Season
July 26, 2014 4:52 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #13
It's cool and all that we can use five planeswalkers as commanders now, but I wish that the text that said that was at the very top rather than at the very bottom...
July 26, 2014 4:54 p.m.
It's already broken. Run it in simic superfriends and ult straight away with doubling season. You would have thought that printing it as a commander might make them actually THINK about what they're printing.
July 26, 2014 4:55 p.m.
TurboFagoot says... #16
I don't think it's a broken card on the basis that you need Doubling Season + other planeswalkers to do anything "broken".
+1 Draw a card is nice, and the -1 is nice too. But it's nothing absurd. It's probably a little overcosted, but that's to balance it being available at any time if you choose to use it as your commander.
July 26, 2014 5:11 p.m.
killroy726 says... #17
I'd like to point out that he is mono blue and cost 6. Of course 6 mana is not hard to get in anything with green in it however in edh you'd have to multicolor and then tutor for him plus doubling season. So I'd say while he is damn awesome I don't think he's extremely broken
July 26, 2014 5:21 p.m.
Let's slow down and think rationally about this. Is having a planeswalker as your commander BETTER than having a creature? Yes and no.
Yes: Having a planeswalker as your commander means that your commander can't die to the usual Wrath of God
s, only Planar Cleansing
and Merciless Eviction
come to mind. It means that in order for your commander to go back to the command zone, they'll need to attack it, NOT YOU. So they can act as a psuedo-fog that lets you keep your life-total however you want it.
No: Some commanders are only useful when attacking or for their abilities. In either case there are ways to use their abilities more than once per turn, which Teferi can't do (unless you do some The Chain Veil shenanigans). And while the Doubling Season interaction is well known, with Teferi you just payed ~6 mana to get an emblem that you need other planeswalkers for. In a Teferi PW EDH you'll have <10 planeswalkers? That's still 1/10th of your deck, and unlikely you'll have them available. Also, you can't kill someone with Commander damage if a planeswalker is your commander. This shouldn't be overlooked. While many decks don't rely on Commander damage, it is a nice fall-back option for many deck.
Tl:dr, don't overreact. Remember that there is a member of the Commander Rules Committee working at Wizards, so he'll have a say in anything that Wizards will print.
July 26, 2014 5:24 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #19
I agree with JWiley129, an immediate negative reaction is by no means the way to go. It may seem broken at first, but there are plenty of ways to shut down a planeswalker. Doubling Season is a thing, I agree, but it's not incredibly hard to remove from the battlefield, especially in EDH
July 26, 2014 5:28 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #20
Teferi's still alive?!
Interesting that his second ability is only -1. That's pretty easy on the loyalty counters for a 6-drop walker and is very good.
July 26, 2014 5:35 p.m.
Also remember guys that Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker are a thing, and while they aren't the best in Commander you CAN still run them.
July 26, 2014 5:39 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #22
Ugh, this looks busted. Also, since when is it super cool to have walkers as commanders? I feel like it's messing with the spirit of the format. Damn, though. Such power.
I will say I like that mono-colored commander decks are getting some love finally.
July 26, 2014 5:46 p.m.
I think it's just that he's really quite difficult to remove versus a creature and unlike other more questionable choices actually has a very useful ability.
July 26, 2014 5:50 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #24
Ah, but I would be willing to bet that there'll be some sort of Planeswalker hate in each deck.
July 26, 2014 5:54 p.m.
Also here's the thread on mtgcommander where they're talking about it. Sheldon has already said something to ease some of the panic, which I hope the members of T/O already assumed.
July 26, 2014 5:56 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #27
On the positive side, at least only certain planeswalkers will be usable as commanders. I could just imagine some of the previously made ones being able to be used.
July 26, 2014 6:39 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #28
Oh. Joy.
Wizards, wtf are you doing with the only format I enjoy? I'm not bitter (yes I am), but planeswalkers as commanders opens up a whole can of worms that is really best left sealed. Underground. In another universe.
Inb4 50 people try again to make planeswalkers-as-commanders formats/rules.
July 26, 2014 6:45 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #29
Any format in Magic is subject to change, so I don't quite understand the negative reception to this. These planeswalkers that can be used were designed with the commander format in mind, so I'm sure that it's not going to be broken as people say. It saddens me to see such hatred to a new idea, but I suppose I'll be the one with the unpopular opinion here.
July 26, 2014 6:48 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #30
They're not fucking up the format, they're just... giving the casuals what they wanted?
July 26, 2014 6:58 p.m.
Epochalyptik - Just so you know, Maro said there is no intention of other planeswalkers being usable as commanders. Source
July 26, 2014 7:05 p.m.
It's just absurdly open to abuse and poorly balanced. It evidently wasn't designed with commander in mind, else it wouldn't have various absurd characteristics like the ability to ult the turn it's played or the ability to generate nearly limitless mana etc. Even it's +1 is so, so powerful. I can't think of any other commander that comes in and immediately, on the spot, changes the game as much as this does except perhaps grand arbiter?
July 26, 2014 7:05 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #33
That is implying that the opponent has a Doubling Season out, has the mana to cast him at the same time, and also has the mana to either save him from being countered or to stop Doubling Season from being destroyed. A Sleight of Hand isn't immensely good in EDH, and he doesn't particularly change the game right when he comes in (unless you have big mana rocks out and put out Karn or something. But this is a Magical Christmasland scenario.) If having him as a commander and having him combo with a single card out of 99 others is over powered, then I've been playing the wrong format.
Granted, that is your opinion and I respect it. I'm just trying to justify my viewpoint here.
July 26, 2014 7:19 p.m.
ChiefBell - There are plenty of planeswalkers that can ult the turn they are played with a Doubling Season in play. But the new Teferi, if he's your commander, can't run Doubling Season , but only as part of the 99 in a U/G/x deck. While I understand and respect the Doubling Season argument, you can't let that define your argument. Especially when his ult requires planeswalkers to be abuse-able.
July 26, 2014 7:23 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #35
@JWiley129: I have no clue why that didn't occur to me, either, haha. But you're correct, that would make the combo that much more unreliable.
July 26, 2014 7:26 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #36
@JWiley129: As long as this is the only exception, I can live with it.
@chrishuffman95: I'm not opposed to change. However, I believe that change needs to be carefully planned. The problem with something like Teferi is that it in some ways legitimizes the misguided and poorly-planned efforts of players to force planeswalkers into the commander role, or to modify commander around the planeswalker-as-a-general idea. I don't look forward to the 10+ threads of people trying to argue that planeswalkers as commanders is a legitimate idea and that you can totally make a format where life=loyalty and it won't be broken.
The basic problem is that it's setting a dangerous precedent in a community demonstrated to have poorly handled this precedent in the past. Granted, no serious damage has ever come of it (the discussions were largely theoretical), but this is not unlike the post-WWK spoilers where people were wondering "Is JMTS the future of planeswalkers?"
@ChiefBell: I don't think Teferi is as busted as he may seem at first blush. The +1 is a reasonable toolbox, the -1 is a ramp or ability-reuse enabler, and the -10 is kind of mediocre unless you have a lot of dedicated support for it (which, in monoblue, would require that you basically run every Jace, plus Tamiyo). It doesn't do anything game-breaking on its own, in my opinion.
July 26, 2014 7:28 p.m.
Epochalyptik - It is a cycle of planeswalkers, but Maro and Sheldon Menery have both said there is no expectation of older planeswalkers or newer planeswalkers being allowed as Commanders. I also agree it is VERY difficult to try and scale planeswalkers into commanders, but it's not an impossible puzzle. It just has tons of moving parts.
July 26, 2014 7:30 p.m.
chrishuffman95 says... #38
@Epochalyptik: That is a point I can agree with. I don't care for a format where all planeswalkers would be usable as commanders, as I feel it would become rather silly. I've seen these threads here and there, and often saw a lot of chaos and disarray in the idea. I trust Wizards in providing a form of that format, and i wholly support it. If anybody can plan this carefully, it's the company that makes the game.
July 26, 2014 7:32 p.m.
biggestmtgnerd says... #39
What you do is run Copy Enchantment and play against an Ulasht, the Hate Seed or a Thromok the Insatiable deck, which is almost guaranteed to run Doubling Season or Primal Vigor . Or you could proliferate, then use his ultimate. Or wait until you have 10 mana, then use the Chain Veil.
I think it works. When I first saw this, I thought it looked like the new jace and the new Nissa combined. I find it interesting how everybody thought Jace, the Living Guildpact was underpowered and yet this is overpowered. Jace costs 2 less, fuels your graveyard instead of putting the card at the bottom of your library, protects himself in a pinch, and has a more powerful ultimate. Granted, Jace doesn't ramp like crazy, isn't able to be your commander, can't activate his ultimate the next turn, and doesn't have a second ability with awesome synergy with his ultimate. But really, is there that much of a difference?
July 27, 2014 4:57 a.m.
biggestmtgnerd says... #40
Oops, thought the ultimate was -6, not -10. I still think Teferi is really powerful, though.
July 27, 2014 6:01 a.m.
I don't see it as too busted, the commander just becomes a target like any planeswalker that hits the field and building up enough loyalty points for an ult doesn't seem that likely in a 4 player pod. In 1vs1 on the other hand they may end up banning these planeswalkers as commanders.
July 27, 2014 3:45 p.m.
Can we talk about how lore-wise, Teferi lost his planeswalker spark in TSP block? He shouldn't be walker-ing around, and this is the first time in a long time that he's gotten a spotlight.
July 27, 2014 11:08 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #43
Ah, but if my lore knowledge doesn't fail me, Teferi was also a time traveler. That could have something to do with not having a spark now yet having a walker card.
July 27, 2014 11:12 p.m.
TurboFagoot says... #44
Maro said this is Teferi pre-mending. Being a supplemental product, it can grab characters from any point in their timeline.
July 28, 2014 12:53 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #45
I for one welcome this change of strictly legendary creatures as commanders, and I can't wait to build decks for each of the planeswalking commanders!
July 28, 2014 12:55 a.m.
I can just imagine getting his ultimate while having a The Chain Veil
in play.
Especially if you have Tezzeret the Seeker out, untapping the The Chain Veil , as a +1, on every players turn. - But heck, even if Teferi is around after Ultimate (will be easy, since he's your Commander)... untap the Veil and mana producing Artifacts, then get an extra card on each players turn.
I'm guessing any of the PW Commanders + The Chain Veil is going to be ridiculous, but this ones Ultimate makes it Crazy.
These decks are going to just be a race to see who can ultimate first.
July 28, 2014 10:01 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #47
After thinking about this a bit I'm now choosing to look at it as another opportunity for them to reprint Doubling Season .
July 28, 2014 1:03 p.m.
MindAblaze! - Maro has said that Doubling Season won't get reprinted b/c of its interaction with Planeswalkers (develpment issue). Plus this Teferi isn't going to be legal in Standard/Modern, so that's unlikely to be a problem.
July 28, 2014 1:15 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #49
I am glad they printed Teferi as a planeswalker though, he deserved the treatment, whatever the other details are/become.
I hope we see Serra and Mishra too. Probably not Urza, since he'd be blue.
He seems alright though and I'd like to see how this plays out. It'll be tiresome hearing people that want Jace the Money Sculptor as their commanders now but I think it'll blow over after 2-3 months and it'll be business as usual.
...
That said, I do not look forward to everytime I explain the rules on what your Commander can be to someone, having some guy chime in with "except for-". I hate it when people constantly have to list every possible exceptional case when I'm trying to get a point across.
July 28, 2014 2:11 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #50
nobu_the_bard, I tend to be that guy mostly because I would like to know those exceptions if I were the one being explained to.
riddler89 says... #2
I personally would love to have him in a superfriends deck. That emblem...
July 26, 2014 4 p.m.