Some questions on Modern Burn...
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on March 24, 2018, 11:58 a.m. by StoryArcher
* please note that this post isn't about a specific deck, but they were inspired by my putting together a mono red burn deck which can be found here. Obviously any thoughts on it are welcome in this thread or on its page - thanks.
I had a few questions for those who may have played Modern Burn competitively and recently.
I understand why Goblin Guide is such a staple, but it appears that Eidolon of the Great Revel has become one as well, and I'm not entirely sure why. On the surface, sure, it makes your opponent damage himself in order to do anything which accelerates the hurt, but at the same time, every single card in your deck will do the same to you, and staying just barely ahead of his life count seems like a dangerous way to go. Moreover, it seems like the two cards mentioned actually have negative synergy, with Guide helping your opponent get out the mana he needs to circumvent the Eidolon as soon as possible.
Another question would be what the best replacements for Goblin Guide would be in a budget burn deck? Vexing Devil comes to mind, but its not much cheaper. Perhaps 3x Spark Elemental and 1x Grim Lavamancer? I considered Ash Zealot but I like the recursion of Hellspark Elemental and even Faithless Looting, which brings me to another question...
Why doesn't Modern Burn have any card draw? Specifically with spells like Browbeat and then there's Faithless Looting out there to pump up your Monastery Swiftspear while finding you just the card you need? Isn't there the very real possibility that your burn will just peter out right before the more popular combo decks or swarm decks get going? It seems to me that card draw, along with Magma Jet is seriously overlooked in the current meta, but I could be wrong...
Its been a long time since I've played Burn and I'm trying to get my head around some of the particulars of the current environment. Thanks in advance!
The reason modern burn doesn't run any card draw probably is that it's unnecessary. You can easily have the 20 damage you need to deal in the cards you naturally draw over the first 4 turns. If you spend 3 mana on drawing cards in turn 3, that's 3 mana you don't spend on dealing burn damage.
As for the popularity of Eidolon of the Great Revel, consider this: you play against burn, you are on the draw.
Burning Man T1: Mountain, Monastery Swiftspear, attack for 1.
You T1: Aether Vial (you play death & taxes or merfolk)
Burning Man T2: mountain, Lightning Bolt, Lava Spike, attack for 3. total damage 10.
Poor you, as your turn 2 starts; only half your starting life left, and you have nothing on the table. So you play..,. say, a blocker. A 2-cost creature.
And then Burning Man slams the Eidolon of the Great Revel, and you realize that with all the cheap creatures your have, you can't play blockers without taking damage, and you can't play removal without taking damage. Just one hit from the eidolon, and you go from 4 to 3 bolts needed to kill you - this will happen, even if you only play a spell to kill the eidolon. And Burning Man will take some damage from the bolts he throws at you, but he has a lot more life than you to give from.
My own attempt at a budget'ish burn deck: Daughters first deck. I don't have any substitute 1 drops instead of Goblin Guide, but the deck is mostly made for educational purposes.
March 24, 2018 2:22 p.m.
It only burns when I peeis my burn list that is almost undefeated in my play group and it's fairly budget and doesn't use either of those cards. But It needs guide the land or two guide gives your opponent isn't going to be a problem with how fast you want to win with burn
March 24, 2018 6:12 p.m.
Eidolon is fantastic because it's a recurring source of damage that's also a body, and it usually does something even when your opponent kills it. It's value on a stick, that can beat the likes of Storm more or less by itself.
Burn doesn't run card draw spells because there really aren't any ones that are good enough to be worth it. Looting is card disadvantage unless you have graveyard shenanigans (and Burn doesn't), Browbeat is a bad card because the opponents gets the outcome most convenient to them, and after that you're on durdly cards like Tormenting Voice and Cathartic Reunion. You could maybe make a case for Bedlam Reveler, but he has been tested and found wanting.
MollyMab says... #2
Eidolon of the Great Revel is great. If every spell you cast is doing 3 damage to them and every spell they cast is doing 2 damage to them, it punish them for developing their board. You aren't likely to be bolted back for lethal after all. Guide provides you with information and sure they might get a land, but they still have to play it etc, and any gains from that are swiftly negated by killing them.
Don't replace Goblin Guide. It isn't replaceable. Vexing Devil gives a choice. Spark Elemental is another bolt but can be blocked, so just shock would be better.
So looting puts you down 1 card for 1 mana. And are the cards you draw going to be better than what you already have? Burn is a combo deck that is built to win off its top 12 or so cards. It doesn't need draw cause each card needs to be live and going face. Magma Jet provides some control over top deck but is it needed when every card represents about the same amount of damage?
Basically, it hurts them more than it hurts you, and represents a lot of damage for 2 mana. Guide isn't replaceable really due to the 2-6 damage it represents for 1 mana. Giving your opponent choice is bad. Each card is worth about the same so more draw isn't needed.
March 24, 2018 1:17 p.m.