[Community Discussion]: Legacy Chat
Legacy forum
Posted on May 6, 2015, 9:47 p.m. by Epochalyptik
This thread is dedicated entirely to Legacy. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #2
I think Nether Void. Invoke Prejudice has a very difficult mana cost and creature spells do not define legacy or vintage. Mox Diamond is good, but it doesn't belong in every deck. I also do not feel comfortable advising someone on how to spend hundreds of dollars.
The thing with Legacy and Vintage is that rogue and casual decks tend to not fare very well. The established decks are so tuned and punishing.
Jalverastegui you seem like you've been playing for a long time. How often do you play in legacy or vintage tournaments?
March 24, 2020 1:19 a.m.
Jalverastegui says... #3
Thanks ToolmasterofBrainerd.
I was about to pull the trigger on Nether Void and it was sold away so I went and bought Mox Diamond and took the chance to enhance my collection with a couple of Deadeye Navigaters, Palinchrons, Massacre Wurms and an Ancient Tomb.
Been playing Vintage (although was not Vintage at that time) for a long time (since my Highschool days back in ‘95) my first ever booster pack I bought was a 4th Edition that contained a Demonic Tutor. I played several tournaments back on the day but since I came back to MTG about two months ago so I am trying to catch up.
March 25, 2020 10:23 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #4
That explains a lot. The modern day legacy and vintage decks are very different from the ones back in the day.
If you haven't already, I'd look at some of the decklists at MTG goldfish or mtgtop8. Looking at those decks should give a decent idea of the power level of these decks. In vintage the big 3 decks are Artifacts with Mishra's Workshop, Dredge decks with Bazaar of Baghdad, and some blue deck held together by Force of Will.The exact versions of these decks vary drastically, especially among the blue decks, but almost every vintage deck plays one of those 3 cards, and sometimes multiple.
While those cards are expensive, there are a lot of very powerful cards which are affordable. Since you play white weenies, I recommend 4 copies of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. It is by far the most important creature card printed in recent history. It holds entire archetypes together across multiple formats.
March 25, 2020 4:39 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #5
Also, since you got a massacre wurm, you should look into mono-black reanimator in legacy. It's a sweet deck with a lot of flexibility in how it's built. If you pick the right threats, I think it could be a fairly nostalgic deck.
March 25, 2020 4:46 p.m.
Jalverastegui says... #6
Just a general thought on how crazily powerful modern creatures are compared to the old days (back in the 90’s).
Juzam Djinn pales in comparison with Phyrexian Obliterator, Massacre Wurm or Grave Titan... Serra Angel (a personal favorite) is inferior IMO to Baneslayer Angel or Serra Ascendant (in the right buildup), Consecrated Sphinx is fathoms above my boy Mahamoti Djinn and weenies like Order of White Shield or Leitbur can not compare to Grand Abolisher or Stoneforge Mystic and don’t get me started on Wurmcoil Engine.
I feel like sorceries and instants are inferior now but WOTC have overcompensated with these insane creatures.
Thoughts?
March 25, 2020 7:11 p.m.
Jalverastegui says... #7
Running a BWU artifact decks with 2 Wurmcoils, 2 Phyrexian Metamorphs, 2 Darksteel Colossus and 1 Blightsteel Colossus plus a Copy Artifact as my big hitters, i have been considering buying another 2 Wurmcoils to include in my deck since most of the time they result in my winning condition...
I run also 1 Demonic Tutor, 1 Vampiric Tutor, 1 Imperial Seal, 2 Fabricate, 2 Enlightened Tutors, 2 Tezeret to fetch my big hitters if needed.
Is it worth to buy and include 2 more Wurmcoils for a total of 4 in the deck?
March 25, 2020 9:25 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #8
Yes, creatures have become considerably more powerful since the start of the game, while many of the best spells are still from the start of the game.
But, legacy and vintage are still the havens for spells. Creature-based decks will always be slower than spell-based combinations. Thus, creature decks need to play creatures which also disrupt the opponent, like Thalia.
Winning the game in legacy and vintage is usually not about creature combat. Plenty of decks attack with creatures, but it's rare to see a creature block. Swords to Plowshares is widely played. Creatures like Wurmcoil Engine are kept in check because they're not too hard to counter or exile. It's also a long time before you can cast a wurmcoil engine.
In legacy there are a lot of decks like reanimator, storm, and sneak and show which can win the game consistently on turn 2 or 3. High-mana creatures can't be cast in time, and they certainly don't have enough time to kill a player.
If you plan on casting 6 mana creatures, I highly recommend 4 copies of Dark Ritual to cast them quicker. And if you want to interact with combo decks, Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach are your best bets. They can mess up the opponents plan enough that you can kill them before they can recover.
If you do want to play big creates in legacy or vintage, wurmcoil engine actually isn't very good. It's fine, but you don't want 4 copies. It's answered by the commonly played creature interaction. Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor can keep wurmcoil from doing anything. Grave Titan is better because it makes bodies as soon as it enters play, rather than after. Massacre Wurm is removal for dredge and shops decks in vintage or delver decks in legacy. You can also use your mana on planeswalkers like Liliana, Dreadhorde General.
March 26, 2020 2:18 a.m.
Jalverastegui says... #9
Need help with a ruling my friends. If I have a Batterskull equipped on a Germ token and my oponer cast Arrest on the Germ (making him unable to attach/block/activate abilities) can I still activate the ability on Batterskull and return it to my hand (killing the Germ)? Or I can not activate the ability on Batterskull because the Germ is “Arrested”?
April 16, 2020 8:39 p.m.
Jalverastegui - this is the wrong place to ask this question. I will provide a full answer on your wall (I am repeating this post on each of the threads you posted on).
April 16, 2020 8:43 p.m.
Jalverastegui says... #11
Hi everyone! Hope everyone is safe! Wanna know you’re thoughts on a possible purchase, I can buy either 1 x Time Vault or 2 x Taiga & 2 x Badlands. What do you think is a better purchase play wise?
I own other ABU Duals but not these, I do own a full set of Fetch, Shock, Check and Battleborn lands on RG and RB colors. However Duals are Duals and I can also play them on my EDH decks besides Vintage and Legacy.
On the Time Vault, I haven been eying it out for a while as the final price to my Shops deck to combo with Tez/Voltaic...
I know is hard to advise on this type of things but if it where you what would you buy?
Thanks in advise and again, stay safe!
May 24, 2020 7:09 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #12
Jalverastegui Time vault for legacy or vintage? Because time vault is super banned in every format except vintage.
May 24, 2020 9:59 p.m. Edited.
Jalverastegui says... #13
ToolmasterOfBrainerd You are right, Vintage, but there are no Vintage threads and the closest is Legacy.
I play my Workshops deck with 2 x Tezzeret the Seeker so I can both Tutor it + Untap it for a combo... however I do know is very specific/narrow card, but powerful...
That’s why I am at the fence in this choice... What would you choose if you absolutely had to? 4 x Dual Lands (Taiga/Badlands) or 1 x Time Vault?
Thanks brother!
May 24, 2020 10:52 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #14
If it's for vintage, then I'd personally choose Time Vault all the way. You will never lose a game of vintage because you played a shockland instead of a dual land. 2 life is nothing in vintage. Time Vault is a super powerful and super sweet card.
May 24, 2020 11:17 p.m.
Jalverastegui says... #15
What’s your take on Allosaurus Shepherd from Jumpstart? It was on Pre-Sale for $15 - $25 weeks ago and now it’s trading at $90... The card is definitely powerful (albeit a bit narrow in its Shut Down Counter ability) and packs a mean win con ala Craterhoof... Do you think the price will drop after July 17th Jumpstart release? Is it worth the $90 price tag? Do you think will be banned or restricted on July 13th announcement?
July 10, 2020 12:42 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #16
It'll go down. It won't be banned because there aren't changes to legacy or vintage on Monday. Definitely not worth 90.
Jalverastegui says... #1
Hey guys, have the chance to buy one of the following: Mox Diamond, Invoke Prejudice or Nether Void.
I play several Vintage decks with Mono White, Black and Blue or combination do those colors.
Which card will you recommend me buy?
March 24, 2020 midnight