Okay, Simic Charm
General forum
Posted on Jan. 14, 2013, 10:09 a.m. by UmbrotheUmbreon
IS BRUTAL :D
Give a creature +3/+3, or stop targets from hitting your permanents, or bounce a creature. That's just awesome :)
gheridarigaaz says... #5
Why didn't they change the Unsummon part to a Boomerang ? or at least a Disperse would've been better...
January 14, 2013 10:37 a.m.
candlehawk says... #6
Because Boomerang just looks really OP even from first glance. What I don't think the people who are calling Simic Charm bad don't understand, is that the charms are three lesser effects for a bit more. A cantrip without a secondary effect for WU, for instance, is really bad, but given that it's on the same card that can make your creatures all have lifelink OR can bounce an attacking or blocking creature to the top of library are the parts that make Azorius Charm work.
Boros charm is a huge bomb, but it is the exception to the charms. Having an Unsummon in your charm bag-o-tricks in a deck that is about making creatures bigger and more badass over time is really dangerous, especially when it's on the same card that can make them even bigger or prevent them from being targeted for a turn.
Sure, you pick apart each effect and the only thing that stands out is the hexproof, but having all these things together on one card is amazing. That's the beauty of the charms, is that you draw a charm, you have 3 things that all answer different possible problems, they're not the 'greatest solution' to any one problem, but they have a huge chance at helping out almost any problem.
That said, yea I think the Simic Charm could stand to see a bit of a boost, perhaps a Disperse effect would be more on the money of making it truly constructed playable.
January 14, 2013 10:52 a.m.
hollandboys says... #7
I don't believe simic charm will see play outside of a sideboard. It doesn't come close to comparing to Boros, Selesnya, and Azorius. Would be nice to see if playing simic in a draft though
January 14, 2013 11:31 a.m.
I don't know, hollandboys. Giving your permanents Hexproof is basically either a straight-up Counterspell or can really screw your opponent into wasting mana. Unsummon is good, but not worth running on its own right now. Giant Growth isn't worth it by itself either, but having the optional buff can be very powerful.
January 14, 2013 11:50 a.m.
hollandboys says... #9
I'd personally rather make my permanents indestructible. I think that I would rank it fourth so far out of the charms. I like the fact that you can protect your planeswalkers from a Dreadbore or Oblivion Ring though. Azorius charm is better because it really throws off an opponent and ruins their next draw step, while also allowing you to draw a card. Selesnya Charm is better because it also gives trample, can remove some of the biggest threats around (Thragtusk , Obzedat, Thundermaw Hellkite , etc), and can flash is a blocker or a creature if needed. Finally, Boros charm is better because I would take indestructible over hexproof any day with board wipes still destroying all the hexproof creatures, and double strike is better than +3/+3. So I'd rank it fourth so far. Just my opinion
January 14, 2013 11:57 a.m.
Have fun using Boros Charm in a G/U deck.
Ranking cards in a vacuum is silly. Apply it to real-world situations and now you're getting somewhere.
January 14, 2013 12:03 p.m.
@Rayenous: I think you misinterpret what makes the Charms' abilities so good.
It's Giant Growth for twice the cost. It's Unsummon for twice the cost. It's Mizzium Skin for twice the cost.
But it's still better than all three of those spells because you can have the option to use all three on one spell. At any given time, you can cast whichever one you need the most. If you had Giant Growth , Unsummon , and Mizzium Skin in your hand, that doesn't leave much room for anything else.
January 14, 2013 12:06 p.m.
gheridarigaaz says... #12
Are we sure this IS the actual one? I've seen one which basically gives similar properties...
Land becomes a 3/3 till end of turn
Return nonland permanent to owners hand
Target creature gains hexproof till end of turn.
Not too far from what i'm seeing here, though the one i saw might've been someone trolling or something...
http://thoughtscour.com/simic-charm-possible-gatecrash-spoiler/
January 14, 2013 12:10 p.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #13
Given the flavor of blue and green this charm fits the bill perfectly. My favorite thing about pump spells is swinging with a weak creature to get them to block with their awesome creature, and then in response pump for a kill. Not to mention it can be done the other way too.
Bouncing is extremely key for cards with trample. "Okay swing with a 8/8 trample creature. You block? In response to blocking I'll bounce it to deal all 8 damage to you."
As mentioned before, shutting down cards like Detention Sphere , Oblivion Ring , Dreadbore . and other targeting cards is amazing. Hexproof planeswalkers just means that they live longer to do their stuff longer.
January 14, 2013 12:10 p.m.
This Simic Charm is on MTGSalvation's spoiler page. And they've never been wrong in the past.
The other one has been assumed fake since it popped up a month ago.
January 14, 2013 12:13 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #15
Actually a funny thought just occurred to me. If someone plays Oblivion Ring instead of responding with the triggered ETB effect you respond to the o-ring itself. When it ETB they have to pick a legal target. Since all of your permanents are hexproof they have to exile one of their own permanents. It becomes better with Detention Sphere because they can't choose the sphere itself.
January 14, 2013 12:23 p.m.
You have to remember that the card costs more than a normal Giant Growth or Unsummon because it gives you choice. Having choice is very valuable in a deck. If you wanted Giant Growth , Unsummon and Mizzium Skin that would take up 12 cards out of 60. The simic charm would take up 4 and be able to fill the role of all of them.
January 14, 2013 12:26 p.m.
@zandl: I think you misinterpret what I said.
I specifically said "Sure it's nice to have all of these in one card for options while taking up less space in a deck...", which is what you claim I am missing.
My point is that it is poor in comparison to other charms. Each other charm either brings something unique (Regenerate each creature you control), has a permanent effect (2/2 Vigilance creature), or has a weaker and cheaper effect of a more powerful card (creatures you control gain lifelink until end of turn rather than Vault of the Archangel )... etc. As well, most charms promote their guild theme/mechanic.
Simic, however, gets nearly identical, unoriginal effects at a higher cost. None of their effects assist the guild mechanic. The two effects which may get used most commonly (Unsummon and Giant Growth ) are of two contradicting play styles... i.e: control decks that would use Unsummon would rarely consider a Giant Growth type effect, and vice-versa. As such, a streamlined deck would use a cheaper version of the one effect it would use.
This is not a bad card... just not nearly as efficient or useful as the other charms.
January 14, 2013 12:26 p.m.
That would be a good strategy against Oblivion Ring , as it cannot hit itself, and is not a 'may' ability. However Detention Sphere say 'may', and thus they could simply not hit anything with it... still good for saving your permanents, but it would not force them to lose something.
January 14, 2013 12:57 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #19
This charm actually looks really good. The unsummon ability is often thought of to disrupt your opponent but with the evolve mechanic, unsummoning certain creatures of yours could be important. An extra +3/+3 can come in handy, but may not be the necessary thing. I rarely use the selesnya charm for the 2/2 token, but when all I need is that extra 2 damage or creature its perfect. Its third ability is great too.
January 14, 2013 1:50 p.m.
MinscAndBoo says... #20
GU Delver is going to be insane w/this card, and it's already pretty good.
January 14, 2013 3:29 p.m.
Delver won't be a tier-1 or even tier-2 deck unless Mana Leak or an equivalent gets reprinted.
Or a good can-trip.
Or Vapor Snag .
January 15, 2013 2:08 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #22
I doubt the swords are ever going to be reprinted, or if they do, not for a long time
January 15, 2013 5:11 a.m.
For limited, this is a bomb. For constructed? Not too sure. For casual? Bomb. This will be doing quite a bit around the kitchen table.
January 15, 2013 9:04 a.m.
Honestly I don't think the card is underpowered, I'd definitely use it in limited in the appropriate colours but (as has been said before) there are other charms that are better.
1st ability : I'd rather the +2/+2 and trample from Selesnya Charm
2nd ability : I'd rather have the indestructible from Boros Charm
3rd ability : I'd rather have the bounce from Azorius Charm
It doesnt show us anything really new and interesting and feels like its less than the other charms for sheer power.
What bothers me is that it just doesn't feel as simic as the other cards spoiled so far. No card draw, no +1/+1 counters.. I get that its very creature-centric (as simic should be) but it lacks the feeling of evolution / change that shine through so well in the other spoilers released for the guild so far.
Like I said, I'd still play it in limited (not sure about standard / modern, I generally only play limited / commander and i'd never play it in commander) but it feels kind of ... off ...
January 15, 2013 10:16 a.m.
rckclimber777 says... #25
I think that Delver may have a come back. Yes its missing most of its power cards. I think the biggest loss it has right now is actually Ponder . Yes Mana leak is a great card, but it now has access to syncopate and dissipate, both of which can be used as an ok replacement. The versatility of the simic charm gives me cause for concern for G/U delver. Delver had mutagenic growth, vapor snag and mana leak (to primarily protect delver). With this one card it gets a giant growth an unsummon and hexproof. Yes each of those is different from the original cards that were in the deck (and cost more in 2/3 cases), but having all of those abilities in one card is fantastic. I'm not saying for sure that delver will rise to the top again, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it make an attempt at a comeback with the simic charm being the key card. With Thought Scour and card:Runechanter's Pike still in standard I think a decent G/U delver deck could be constructed.
Oh and I'd rather have simic charm over every other charm except Selesnya Charm . It'll definitely see play in standard.
January 15, 2013 11:45 a.m.
Delver can't work without a can-trip. Ponder was the key card in the deck's success, Mana Leak coming in at a close second.
Syncopate and Dissipate are no where near as good as Mana Leak .
January 15, 2013 2:49 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #27
I agree that Ponder was the key and so it would need to be a cantrip similar to it. Thought scour isn't that cantrip, but being the only one in standard I'm sure there is a way to get the most out of it. I think a delver build (not necessarily the same formula as before) is still possible. I think simic charm is the best charm from gatecrash and wouldn't be surprised to see it in a deck with delver soon after release. Maybe not the original build, but there are still enough cards out there that a delver-pike build could hold its own. I agree that my position is still premature and thus can't be defended yet, but there is a part of me that thinks delver will at least be attempted and do ok in the first few events.
Rayenous says... #2
Compare the abilities of this charm to the 3 compareable counterparts.
Giant Growth ... now with Simic Charm, you can do the same thing for twice the cost.
Unsummon ... now with Simic Charm you can do the same thing for twice the cost.
Mizzium Skin ... now with Simic Charm you can do the same thing, but all permanents, not just creatures, and increasing the cost from the overloaded 1U to GU.
Sure it's nice to have all of these in one card for options while taking up less space in a deck, but compared to the other charms, it really is lacklustre.
January 14, 2013 10:31 a.m.