U/W Control Discussion
Deck Help forum
Posted on Jan. 12, 2011, 9:03 p.m. by MagnorCriol
Okay, so.
Looking through the Standard cards I have, I realized I have a good chunk of the pieces for a current U/W Control deck.
To that end, I've gone and looked at a number of winning U/W decks. Most specifically, I've been looking at Johnathan Randle's Top 8 deck:
jonathan-randle-u/w-control
I've got a few questions about the specific choices made in this deck. I really don't want to just netdeck; I want to understand the Magic theory behind why he chose which cards he did.
Also, I can't just netdeck because, for example, I don't have 4 Mind Sculptors. =p
So, a few theory questions. Any or all you want to answer would help:
- Why does he use Oust ? Why not, say, Journey to Nowhere or Condemn , both of which seem to be better at getting rid of problem creatures?
- I only have 1 jace, the mind sculptor. What role does he fill in this deck, and from that, what can I use as a substitute?
- Same thing with Jace Beleren . He's clearly mainly a draw engine; what can be a good card draw substitute?
- Oh, hey, another one: Gideon Jura . I don't even own one. He seems mostly opponent-army-control; would, say, Sunblast Angel s work instead?
- Overall, I feel like I want more card draw. Do you think putting Wall of Omens or Sea Gate Loremaster in in place of some things (perhaps missing PWs...?) works alright?
- Other in-color bombs I own: 1x Wurmcoil Engine , 1x Sun Titan , 1x Ajani Goldmane , 2x Sunblast Angel , 1x Ratchet Bomb , 1x Mimic Vat , 1x Iona, Shield of Emeria Should I sub any of these in somewhere? I can see uses for all of them.
MagnorCriol says... #3
That's what I was afraid I'd hear, and what I tried to avoid mentioning just to see if I could stave off the inevitable. =p
Well I'm still curious in these questions on a magic theory level. Why is Mind Sculptor so critical? What exactly is it that he does that makes the deck unbuildable without a playset?
I'd like to be able to better assess decks, and to do that I need to start getting familiar with some of the reasoning behind choices pros make. So I'm still interested in seeing some answers.
I guess a new question now, though, is: should I instead take all this U/W tech and use it for trade fodder, then?
January 12, 2011 10:48 p.m.
BrownDog5117 says... #4
haha i hear ya man
- Oust can be nice sometimes because it can control one of your opponents draws, setting them back a turn if used at the right time
- Gideon Jura is awesome. He avoids sorcery speed mass removal (aka Day of Judgment ) and can control your opponents board. If you resolve a Gideon when your opponents board is somewhat clear, he'll stall the game for you to find answers. Or .. just swing for 6 every turn.
January 12, 2011 10:57 p.m.
Wile jace, the mind sculptor is crutial to control, a playset really isn't nessicary. I have played variants that run and successfully utalize 2 maindeck.
to address Oust , it is sorcery speed, however it doesnt require an opponent to be attacking to use it. Say your opponent is at 6 or less life, and they have a pair of creatures in play - well you can bounce one with JTMS, but then you're stuck with the other for your Gideon Jura to try and push through. Oust solves that, same goes if its a pesky creature that they just dont want to attack with. In reality Condemn has its perks as well, but Oust also controls their next draw, which is what the Jace is all about, and you can get rid of it if you want and drop it to the bottom of their deck after.
Wall of Omens could work, you can always bounce it with JTMS back to your hand, but Foresee might also be a good card to include.
All in all, the PWs are there for a reason - I too would hold off on that build until you've gotten a few more... (trade your arse off) and JTMS is only about 60 bucks now.. (at least where I see him)
January 13, 2011 9:13 a.m.
Resurrector_of_the_Soulslayer says... #6
Now I don't know if u are interested or even if this type of deck is worth it in standard but I have seen deck build built around venser the sojorner. In this type of deck u don't need 4xJTMS but 1 is fine. I have my own deck built around venser a u/w deck. Not a lot of control tho lol. Just an idea cus you do have some great w cards.
January 13, 2011 10:49 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #7
There's definitely versions of the archetype that run fewer Wallet Sculptors out there. Akio Chiba had a U/W Control that only ran two and made it high in 2010 Worlds. But none ran as few as 1...and I know I'm not anywhere near the player that someone like Chiba is. I need all the win-more buttons I can get. =p
I hadn't noticed how well Oust works with Sculptor before; I see how that's a strong choice, then. Given that you have a Sculptor on the field it gives you a great way to deal with annoying recurrers like Vengevine .
January 14, 2011 2:06 p.m.
phyrexianpotater says... #8
dont listen to browndogs first comment. you can play great blue strategies without 4 mindsculptors, you just might not be able to win nationals. with that, one of my favorite u/w combos is Sleep and then dropping Sunblast Angel . i have a u/w/b tap control deck you can check out and maybe it'll spark an idea. tap-assination
dont forget the power of Frost Titan for land or artifact lockdown, and Sun Titan to bring back the little guys you may wanna drop again, blockers, or artifacts crucial to your strategy.
January 14, 2011 2:19 p.m.
MagnorCriol says... #9
You know, you have a good point there backyardmetal...I'm not planning on playing at a pro level here, I'm just talking local FNMs. Granted, Pat's Games is a pretty competitive venue - but there's a couple other places around, and competitive or not I don't have to hold myself up to Pro Tour standards or anything.
January 15, 2011 12:51 a.m.
MagnorCriol says... #10
You know, you have a good point there backyardmetal...I'm not planning on playing at a pro level here, I'm just talking local FNMs. Granted, Pat's Games is a pretty competitive venue - but there's a couple other places around, and competitive or not I don't have to hold myself up to Pro Tour standards or anything.
Good food for thought.
January 15, 2011 12:51 a.m.
phyrexianpotater says... #11
you can make a HIGHLY competitive deck without 4 mindsculptors. all the opponent needs is a Vampire Hexmage and bye bye jacey anyway. ive actually been brainstorming a u/w control for a few weeks now. specifically to be in the tier 2 level WITHOUT jace. i think its doable without even having planeswalkers. this deck is just planeswalker focused.
BrownDog5117 says... #2
well.. let me stop you here before you make this deck
WARNING
do not make this deck if you do not have 4x jace, the mind sculptor
his role is almost primary in any control deck with blue
card advantage, board control, late game finisher when opponent is topdecking
there's a reason why he's 90 bucks
January 12, 2011 10:36 p.m.