Do Any Women Play at Your Local Game Store?
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on May 15, 2021, 7:16 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
In decades past, games such as Dungeons & Dragons or Magic: the Gathering, video games, superheroes, Japanese animation, and other "nerdy" hobbies were largely the providence of males, usually in their teens and early twenties, but, in recent years, women now enjoy such pastimes, as well, or, at least, that is what society and general media would have consumers believe.
I do see female customers on occasion at the game store where I play, but they are not regular attendees, so the only woman who is there regularly is the wife of the owner of the store, who co-owns it with him. I find this to be very unfortunate, since I would like to see more women at the store where I play.
I know that this is a fairly serious issue, but I am certain that we can discuss it in a mature and intelligent manner, so I trust everyone here to be respectful and not resort to making presumptions or citing old cliches.
What does everyone else here have to say about this subject? Do any women play at your local game store, why is it that progress is so slow in this area, and what can be done to attract more women to game stores?
Gidgetimer says... #3
It is exhausting to have to fight to be treated equally. As such many people will never get into a hobby or will exit it a short time after if there is a (real or perceived) dissemblance in treatment.
This spans everything from actual sexism, to anime bewbs paraphernalia, to well meaning people making a bid deal about the fact that they are female and at a Magic event. Until LGS owners crack down on the first two and people realize that the last one makes people uncomfortable I think that most female players will stick to private playgroups. Ironically large events will usually enforce rules about behavior and gear and there are enough people that it is impractical for anyone to make a big deal about specific players that I think female players are better represented there than at store level events.
May 15, 2021 8:23 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #4
I think I’m pretty much on the same page as Gidgetimer, but I would probably prioritize the bewbs paraphernalia as the top (and easiest) target for change. It can make female players uncomfortable, sure, but just as a general rule... seriously... keep the hyper-sexualized stuff to a minimum (read: zero). I’m not looking to ban the original Earthbind art or put fig leaves on statues, but it’s getting embarrassing. It’s not a bad habit to look at yourself and your kit before you leave for the shop and say, “Self; if there’s a news crew there tonight... how is this going to look?” It’s not a bad habit to have. I’ve tried very hard to not sound like a furious old curmudgeon hollering at the drive-thru microphone, so I’ve cut my rant to a minimum. Hopefully I’m still making sense.
May 15, 2021 8:52 p.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #5
I haven't been to an LGS since 2019, but when I did I recall there being a reasonable amount of female attendance. I'd estimate around 40% of the players were female from what I recall. That's still obviously biased towards a male audience though. I feel like there's this perception that this issue is more prominent than it actually is, but there's also likely a lot of variance from place to place, and surely in some places it is as bad as people talk about.
In the ~17 years I've been playing, the number of players I've encountered with inappropriate paraphernalia I could count on one hand. Admittedly I'm not a very regular LGS attendant, but still that's hundreds of visits. Maybe I'm lucky in this regard? LGSs are places where literal children hang out. Showcasing degenerate shit around children raises a hell of a lot more questions and red flags than just the concern of making women uncomfortable.
I'm of the opinion that the social gender norms and raising plays the biggest part. Women are raised to embrace things like emotional, social, creative outlets, where men are raised to value things like practical skills, mathematics, etc. The gender disparity in "Nerdy" hobbies is directly connected to the gender disparity in STEM fields an the like imo. And it's all about societal training. It's almost bizarre to watch us, as a culture, create this problem and then wonder why it exists.
May 15, 2021 10:28 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #6
One of the reasons for which I am asking this question is that I am hoping to meet a potential romantic partner through a shared hobby, and some people may say that that is a poor way to do it, but I have had very little success with numerous online dating services, so a shared hobby seems to be a much better idea, to me.
Gidgetimer, I can certainly understand your feelings on that matter, and, I hope that this question is related to this subject, but under what circumstances is it acceptable for men to find women attractive and have paraphernalia of attractive women?
May 15, 2021 10:33 p.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #7
(Controversial opinion)..
Men & women have differences in interests & values that is measurable even in day-old infants (humans and other other primates).
Males (generally) tend to be interested in things & abstract ideas, while females (generally) tend to be interested in people.
And that is okay...
This usually plays out with the sexes having completely different interests, and while exceptions absolutely exist (the hottest girl I ever dated was a natural blonde that I met in my martial arts class who also played an impressive amount of video games), however the novelty of such exceptions only proves the rule..
TL;DR: It's entirely possible, but don't hold your breath..
May 16, 2021 12:36 a.m.
Imagine you go to a store where the other players think you “don't value trading card games” or that they don’t “tend to be interested in things & abstract ideas”? You’d feel pretty bad, right? Especially if your opponents treated you different based on stereotypes, rather than on your actual skills or interests?
Now add to that a layer of you knowing that some people - the proportion is different based on the store - are spending the entire time thinking about whether you would want to go out with them... or worse, actively thinking lustful thoughts. Now add another layer that some actively wear their lust on their (card) sleeves (or playmats, or deck boxes, or tee shirts, etc.)... Not a comfortable situation in the slightest.
To make matters worse, some game stores foster an environment that promotes this toxic environment. Objectifying decorations on the wall or store staff that actively share the same stereotypes and problematic traits of the players are shockingly common. Now, that’s not to say the environment in every LGS is hostile toward females, but a whole lot of them are.
Frankly, a lot of the posts on this thread betray the problems I discuss above. I do not mean that to start an argument, merely to serve as an invitation to reconsider any preconceived notions. If you are taking this as a personal attack, consider this: You might be part of the problem, and, until you change to create a more welcoming environment, those you stereotype, objectify, or otherwise view primarily in a light of “can they be my romantic partner” are not going to feel welcome.
As a community, it is on each of us to do our part to welcome individuals of all walks of life. We each can do our part by purging our own stereotypes and treating all others as players, not first and foremost, but first and only.
May 16, 2021 1:37 a.m.
Regarding my initial comment, I think there are definitely aspects of society that influence men and women to certain things. I don't think it's a stereotype but rather an analysis of the problem as I understand it. We are all free to disagree of course. If you look at the proportion of men vs. women playing MTG, you will see a discrepancy. The fact the OP brings up the topic is evidence of that point.
I don't think we should overlook society's influence, whether that's through ads, family values, sphere of influence with friends (how I got into the game). There are various factors to consider which should be taken into consideration before stating it's a stereotype.
May 16, 2021 2:15 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #10
DemonDragonJ: I am trying really hard to phrase this in a way that doesn't seem like a personal attack.
Short answer: If the question of when it is permissible to have paraphernalia of a certain subject matter has to be asked it is probably better to just say "never".
Long answer: The phrasing of your question is part of the problem. Having paraphernalia that prominently features an attractive woman is ok when the fact that she is attractive is not the entire point of it. Contrast Archangel of Thune with this image from the same artist.
Both prominently feature attractive female characters.
The angel is fully clothed, while the (going by the title of the piece) homunculus only has the bits covered that make it not pornography.
Using the rule of thirds we see the important compositional elements of each piece. Archangel is face (top third line) and sword (bottom third line and reinforced by the left third line). Homunculus is breasts (top third line).
There is no second character to analyze the eyelines in the angel picture, but I find it important to mention that the alchemist's eyeline is also squarely on the homunculus' breasts.
May 16, 2021 7:03 a.m.
It’s a bit off topic, but kind of related to the original post. At my high school I had an anime club that was made up of 90% female students. But I feel like I can maybe draw some parallels on why that club had few male students and why certain LGS’s have few female players.
One aspect is perception. I love anime today, but in high school it never registered to me, because my only perception of it was it was something the girls were into. As a guy it kind of feels intimidating walking into a predominantly female environment and I felt deterred to join the group because I felt like the group members would surely think I was joining just hook up with them and not for the anime. (I only considered joining because a friend of mine was in the group.) So I’d imagine most girls seeing a game store packed with men might feel kind of intimidating likewise.
Another aspect is alienation by discussion. The few times I was part of my high school’s anime club, the club members were in constant discussion over their favorite non-canon love shippings in their favorite anime like Naruto. Now imagine me a guy, the whole conversation is about love interests, most of the time I didn’t really say anything, because there was nothing of relevance I could add to their conversations. If your group is tight knit it might be difficult to include outsiders, so when a female player decides to join I’d suggest you ask her about her own experiences playing Magic and try to stir the group conversation so that the things she says makes the heart and direction of the group conversation. Feeling included is a big way to really connect with any new player and I feel if my anime club took more interest in trying to include me I think I would have fell in love with the medium much sooner than I had. Also be mindful how some things might be perceived to the other gender. In my anime group it was mostly boy x boy shippings and while I’m not here to shame anyone who enjoys that, as a guy it kind of gets awkward when they get incredibly passionate over it. If your playgroup gets incredibly rowdy where you start hollering because your EDH game had three massive twists in a single turn that sort of vibe can instantly alienate a female player that isn’t well acquainted with your group. (That’s not to say female players can’t be just as rowdy or male anime watchers can’t enjoy boy x boy shipping, but its best to be mindful of generalities especially if that person seems quiet during your group’s usual antics.) In the anime group I wouldn’t have ever shared the group’s passion for boy’s love, but if I was better included I could at least grow to appreciate the anime they liked and give my own thoughts about the characters they talked about so that I could still fit in whenever they did talk about the boy’s love genre of anime.
I hope what I said was at least relevant here. Basically be open and show lots of interest for what the new player has to offer in your group should be the motto to go by.
May 16, 2021 7:26 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
Gidgetimer, I certainly did not perceive that as a personal attack, and that was a useful explanation.
Caerwyn, I cannot speak for everyone, but I certainly do not believe myself to be misogynistic or disrespectful toward women, and I have never noticed any toxic behavior at the several stores where I play, although I also am not specifically looking for such behavior, either.
StopShot, that was certainly a very interesting personal anecdote, and I do feel that it is relevant to this discussion; something similar happened to me, once, as well. In one semester of college, I was the only male student in a class; all the other students were female, but, at that time, I lacked the confidence to show interest in any of them, and, if I had, they may not have liked that, so I wonder if it was a good thing that I lacked confidence, at that time.
May 16, 2021 7:39 a.m.
"One of the reasons for which I am asking this question is that I am hoping to meet a potential romantic partner through a shared hobby, and some people may say that that is a poor way to do it, but I have had very little success with numerous online dating services, so a shared hobby seems to be a much better idea, to me."
I have some mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I think it's super important for a couple to have common interests (not just common values), but part of the reason that there are so few women at LGSs is that they feel like they're just meat at a market. And this is coming from someone who met their now wife playing Magic the Gathering (granted, not at an LGS).
As I was typing this, I mentioned the thread to my wife and the respsonse was that "No woman wants to go to an LGS just to have a bunch of people want to play MtG with them just so they can hit on them." And this also applies to making friends with them just so you can hit on them later. Most women can see your intentions and can pretty quickly tell if you're just in it to meet girls.
As for advice on this, don't go along trying to find a date, just go along trying to make friends. And just because someone is into the same hobby as you, that doesn't make them dating material. As I said, there needs to be more than just a common hobby for two people to make a relationship work.
On the topic of creepy oversexualisation of women (especially on something like a playmat), you'll find that most women have a pretty thick skin about this kind of stuff, but that doesn't mean they don't find it gross. I've seen some pretty offputing playmats in my time (to the point of almost porn like levels) and it's just not appropriate. If you want to have that kind of stuff for your own "special time" then that's entirely up to you. But you shouldn't subject others to it.
My wife actually got so sick of those kind of playmats that she had a custom playmat put together using this image: Link - NSFW
The image doesn't actually have any nudity in it, but has the same kind of suggestive nature that a lot of the animu playmats do. And if you feel a little awkward looking at it, thats how most women feel when it comes to the weebie playmats.
May 16, 2021 8:15 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #14
enpc, I am glad that you said that, because I was experiencing mixed feelings about whether or not I should be seeking to meet a new girlfriend through MtG, and your words helped me to decide that I should not be doing that (although that still leaves me in a situation where I am having little success in my efforts).
That image did not bother me, but why did the artist actually go to the effort of drawing body hair on that man? Do people actually find that to be attractive?
May 16, 2021 8:52 a.m.
DemonDragonJ: I'm glad my words helped. As mentioned, if the stars align and you do meet someone who shares similar feelings for you then awesome, but that shouldn't be your goal.
As for the playmat, the comment wasn't specifically targeted at you (more of a general comment to anyone about their playmat/sleeve choices). But to answer your specific question - it's art of the Sniper from TF2. He's a hairy dude, so the picture shouldn't show him baby smooth. And as a hairy man myself, my wife doesn't complain about my chest hair.
May 16, 2021 9:23 a.m.
I think this thread has covered most of the main topics, especially with Caerwyn's thoughtful post. I'd only add to it that there's an additional layer of, for lack of a better word, exoticism that goes around when you're a woman at an LGS. It's like being in a cage at the zoo, whether folks are looking at you because they want to date you or not.
Here's what I mean: I played in a new LGS when I moved to my current town. I mostly play draft. All three of my matches I played against a guy. In two of the three matches, the guy's friends thought it appropriate to come over and say things like "WOW dude, she's kicking your ass!" or "Ha, you're going to lose!" and comment on my plays.
I bring it up because none of them straight-out said things like "ha ha, you're losing to a girl" or "man, this is so embarrassing because she's an assumed easy win," and in fact most of the comments were ""complimentary"" in that they were talking about how good my deck was or how commanding of a position I was in. They probably thought they were saying something kind of nice and just ribbing on their friend at the same time.
But that was still the context. All of it was backhanded, none of them would speak to me directly, and the effect was that it put me in an uncomfortable position of dealing with an increasingly angry opponent plus the added pressure of an audience. It's just not the way anyone wants to play MTG, and it happens just about once every time I go play in-person (which I haven't since the pandemic anyway).
I do agree that sanctioned in-person events like GPs are much better. I never dealt with that scenario at the three GPs I played in.
So please don't ever be those people, and if you see those people congregating, you can come over and bust up the tension by asking someone to trade, or see their deck, or if you know them, just distract them with conversation. Then, just treat women at your LGS like regular players, I'm begging you!
May 16, 2021 9:32 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #17
abby315, I have, in fact, played against women at some events in the past, and I never called attention to the fact that they were women; I respected them as fellow players, and all of my male friends do the same, as well.
May 16, 2021 9:43 a.m.
I already said my two cents, but I want to reiterate a point I was trying to make earlier. Part of the problem is thinking in terms of "never called attention" to the other player's gender--it's not about overtly calling attention to their gender, but more subtle, possibly unconscious ways in which the opponent's gender might change how one plays.
abby315's example is spot-on, and it is small microaggressions like this and others which are among the biggest contributors to an uncomfortable environment. You can bet that most of those who disproportionately watch games with female players, without engaging directly with the female player, do not think they are misogynistic. In fact, they likely do not even notice that their behavior is making the female player uncomfortable, but that does not mean it isn't the case.
Again, it is worth looking at this thread--there are a number of posts where users are making comments where the initial diction is a bit problematic, then walking those comments back in subsequent posts, rationalizing what they were trying to say or explaining that they do not perceive their posts as problematic. That's the exact type of unconscious bias that can come out in interactions--it is subtle behavior, like choice of words, that matters and it is not always easy to recognize those flaws if they are not memorialized in text that is easy to reflect upon.
Making Magic and other games more inclusive starts with recognizing that it is easy to accidently and unwittingly be part of the problem. Once we recognize that, we can start moving forward on making game stores more welcoming environments.
May 16, 2021 11:15 a.m.
DemonDragonJ, instead of focusing on what misongynistic actions you have not done, I think it is much more helpful to evaluate your behavior and think about what you can do to make your LGS an environment that is welcoming and safe for women and other maginalized communities. I think a good start to this is analyzing your sphere of influence and brainstorming ways that your reach can create positive change.
May 16, 2021 12:01 p.m.
My second comment was to explain, not to backtrack, since I didn't get it flushed out and it was misperceived Caerwyn. Moreover, regarding abby315's comment about people gathering and giving "backhanded compliments" --> What if it was just all guys? Guys gathering around guys saying another dude is gonna beat you in the game. The distinction is gender and the perception that it's because she is a girl. Not to say that isn't true, sadly, I do get that same perception many times myself. But that doesn't automatically make that comment a backhanded-compliment/microaggression. It seems like we disagree but that's fine, just wanted to offer another perspective than what you see in front of you simply because everyone is different and when anyone automatically assumes something simply because it occurs the majority of the time, risks alienating outliers who do not fall under that category.
May 16, 2021 12:22 p.m.
Profet93, a great way to help support women and other marginalized people is fully valuing their input and experiences within an institution. That is to say, when someone chooses to disclose personal information, especially when it concerns any form of sexism, believe them. Undermining maginalized experiences only alienates maginalized people and constructs a local culture that is simply not safe.
May 16, 2021 12:50 p.m.
I do believe them. I'm not belitting their experiences/point at all. As I said above, that I even get the same perception as they do. I'm simply asking them to look at another viewpoint aside from their own, not to discredit theirs, but rather to add another layer to this complex dynamic. I am not undermining people's experience. Sorry if it was perceived otherwise. I think it's easy for anyone, man or woman to perceive something (my statement, their own experiences, anything in life really) and remain steadfast in their perceptions regardless of any other information.
I will say I also get uncomfortable with the sexualized playmats and card sleeves (even a few alters), I just don't say anything. Perhaps I should work on that, I will admit.
May 16, 2021 12:57 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #23
Speaking as a married guy who grew up (and still is, a bit) nerdy, there are MUCH more important things to look for in a partner than shared hobbies.
In fact, in the long term, having separate hobbies is important (at least for me). If you feel like you can never go play MtG without them, it can get to be a bit stifling.
Sharing some hobbies is good, but making it a priority over things like compatibility of personality, shared goals, etc leads to disaster. This effect seems to be doubled for nerdy couples, as well, in my lived experience.
A better strategy might be to find a generically nerd-adjacent partner you like as a whole, and then invite them to learn MtG.
Cheers, all.
May 16, 2021 1:11 p.m.
I will confess as a disclaimer that I did not read all of the previous posts on this thread, so I'm replying directly to the OP, not necessarily adding to the conversation. However, I just want to add that my "local" gaming store (actually roughly 15 miles from my house and in a different town) is owned and operated by a woman. It is a hobby shop, so it has everything from remote controlled vehicles (which she repairs) to models (which she builds on her down time) to board games, and RPGs in addition to CCGs (all of which she plays, some of which she hosts tournaments for, or at least did pre-covid).
Furthermore, I have two teenage daughters myself, both of whom play MTG. The older one is really into it, the younger one plays mostly because her sister does, but is way more interested in video games than her sister or I.
I think it's all about parenting. Peers will certainly lead children one way or another, but if parents share their interests with their children without gender bias from a young age, then the children will make decisions about their own interests without gender bias as well. Society and social norms will of course have an effect, but at least the kids will start from a position of egalitarianism if they experience as much from home.
May 16, 2021 1:45 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #25
I've been a regular at a few different LGS's over the past two decades, and even worked at one. Here's what I've noticed so far:
As a young'un (10 years old or so), it took a bit of convincing to get my parents comfortable with allowing me to go to my first LGS and play in Pokemon League alone. It was a typical, comics & games, fairly dingy, hole-in the wall LGS and EVERYONE there was male. The store Pokemon grandpa kind of took me under his wing, and I ended up good friends with a lot of the fellas (and I'd always had more male friends growing up, being interested in Pokemon initially and such), so that helped. Everyone I interacted with regularly was respectful and nice. I can't imagine if I would have stuck with my hobbies if the opposite were true.
Later on, playing at a different LGS in college and even working one (a lot cleaner and brighter, more open, more family-focused, even with a bit of a dress/hygiene code, and less 'typical gamer' focused) there were more women behind the counter and even in the store, even if there weren't many playing Magic and DnD as I was still (though both groups have grown a lot over the years, ESPECIALLY DnD). I found that if there were girls/women looking to learn these games, they definitely gravitated towards me or the other female staff.
I have previously stopped DnD games when the nice, respectful DM repeatedly kidnaps only my character for plot hooks. And I like to think I have pretty thick skin when it comes to all things 'lewd', but I am going to ask you to reconsider using your complete lingerie Liliana set at a prerelease event. Even moreso if you keep telling your friends what you'd like to do to said fictional character while you're standing in front of me at the front counter.
It definitely helps if people just treat women/girls in their game sphere just like everyone else. And maybe consider that your LGS is a PUBLIC space? Even if it is many people's safe space.
May 16, 2021 1:47 p.m.
@enpc That playmat is amazing and it gave me a good laugh, but I could see how that could make certain men uncomfortable with their own bodies looking at it and the points you made with it perfectly encapsulate the problem with raunchy playmats.
May 16, 2021 1:59 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #27
At my LGS, about 5-10% of the Magic players are female at any given event, usually more when it's 2hg prerelease day. Most of them are girlfriends or family members of regulars, taking an interest in the game, to the point that I'm assuming women I play Magic against are off limits romantically by default. I don't think that assumption is an unhealthy one for a public store atmosphere.
Reading these stories here though, do make me realize that I might have been overcompensating a bit in the other way, acting a little more cold and distant towards women than I would towards men. The last thing I want to do is scare them away with too forward behavior, because I'm aware of the issues described in this thread, but I hardly ever considered that being more distant is an equally unwelcoming experience that could prevent them from returning.
I'm awkward around women in general though, not just in male-dominated environments like an LGS. Ever since I started judging the occasional FNM, that did improve a bit. Feeling more responsible for the fun that the players in your event are having, really forces you to empathize with their experience of the night, observe these behaviors in the other players, and say something when they cross the line. In any sort of way, not just a sexist one. But in the end it's a delicate balance, that I don't always know how to address.
May 16, 2021 2:51 p.m.
I know the topic of this thread is about the lack of women in LGS, but I really want to ask some of the people here about how I myself can improve upon my own interactions with female players. I really feel like I need some second opinions and maybe some of the criticisms you have about me could maybe be helpful to other people reading as well? The following has some personal information, so skip my comment if that's not the kind of thing you want to read.
I want to be friends with female players just to be friends. I don't want romantic relationships whatsoever and I would want to make that be very clear. I'm a mid-twenties male who considers themself asexual (as in someone who doesn't have sexual attractions to either sex or gender.) I'm also in a long distance romantic relationship with someone and if most people could see us together, "a hetronormative relationship between two cis people" wouldn't be the first thing to come to mind if you saw both of us. (People don't see that because its a long distance relationship.) What people do see is I'm six feet tall and my brother's friends often tell him that I have "the face of a drug dealer." (No, I don't do drugs nor do I smoke or drink and I do shower every other day so its not like I smell like I do either.) The problem is, I feel like my physical appearance is too intimidating and I'm constantly afraid that if I were to try to make friends with female players they wouldn't be doing it because, "gee, this person seems like decent friend material" but instead, "if I don't pretend to be friendly with this individual he might do something horrendous like stalk or murder me." God, I don't want to scare people into liking me and I feel downright awful if that's the vibe I get from someone because it feels like the only thing I can do to ease the situation is run away as far away as I can from the person. I will admit personally a part of me wants to be friends with female players just for some kind of validation that I'm not as imposing as I think I am, but the other thing is I have a lot of interests that most male players don't have. I love cute things with a burning passion like plushies and really frilly dresses and personally I really enjoy watching wholesome slice of life anime with a predominantly female casts because in a lot of ways the characters are like role models I wish I could emulate and the interactions between the characters in those kinds of shows I find more appealing than what normally goes on in an LGS. Of course that's acknowledging anime uses super idealized tropes in its characters and interactions that in no way reflect 1-to-1 with reality; I just bring it up because too much masculinity in a typical LGS kind of makes even me uncomfortable at times and I kind of wish I had a different social experience to play in.
Sorry, I'm just rambling at this point. I do use an anime playmat and my main commander deck's commander is a custom art card that depicts an anime girl. Neither is intended to be sexualized, but I feel like with some of the baggage attached to anime it might still carry some of the negative aspects that most anime playmats seem to carry.
My commander card: Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
My playmat: Touhou artwork
On a side note: I personally wish I could use more girly artwork on my MTG cards and playmat, but I feel like most guys at an LGS would make that the subject of jokes or ridicule and that's not something I'd feel comfortable with. I feel with some of my interests I can't express them as openly as I'd want to, so when I do pick art I feel like I'm trying to ever so carefully to pick a middle ground between my interests and teasing avoidance. I feel like if there were more female players my interests might not be subjected to as much ridicule and I'd feel more comfortable being open about myself. Any advice on what I could do would be greatly appreciated even if its critical. ̶(̶P̶e̶r̶s̶o̶n̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶i̶s̶h̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶r̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶s̶c̶a̶r̶y̶ ̶f̶a̶c̶e̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶I̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶i̶x̶.̶.̶.̶)̶
May 16, 2021 3:35 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #29
StopShot - speaking for myself, I'm now 29; I didn't take my appearance seriously until I was about 21, when I wanted to attract my wife.
It's probably better served to DMs, but I went through a gigantic personality and appearance transformation to go from being a borderline aspergers shut-in to now being a relative social butterfly. Feel free to message me, my man.
May 16, 2021 3:55 p.m.
OP the question at hand is one you will likely not get a satisfactory answer for, we are all mtg players after all and not sociologists. The simple answer in my opinion is, that many women are simply not interested in MTG. This the case for any particular hobby and any group that doesn't partake in it. I get that this may be overly simplified but, I think the why is less important since there are many different reasons when applied to each individual. How to solve this when we focus less on the why becomes simpler as well. Your best option is to introduce your hobby to others and not necessarily just women either, you never know who might inspire another to play the game we all enjoy.
May 16, 2021 5:07 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #31
Numerous users at this point have stated that hoping to meet a soul mate through a potential hobby is not a wise course of action, so I shall not expect that to happen, but what is a good way (I know to not ask for the perfect way, because there is none) to meet a potential partner, or is such a question beyond the scope of both this thread and this forum?
May 16, 2021 5:49 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #32
Statistically, coed sports are one of the highest success places if you're looking for marriage.
In general, just avoid things like bars, tinder, etc.
May 16, 2021 5:54 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #33
Grubbernaut, I was not aware that many physical sports were co-ed, because of strength differences between men and women.
May 16, 2021 6:42 p.m.
The way you talk about women is actually pretty off putting.
Advice from a lesbian who dates a lot of women. Confidence is great. Act like you are a million dollars and you will feel it. Learn to cook as it is great for you and for impressing (creme brulee is easy to make and generally goes down a treat as a dessert). Never put anyone down, including yourself. When you are complimenting someone choose something that they had input in, such as a cute piece of their outfit or how they did their hair, never something they don't have control over. Communicate and ask them things, seriously nothing is hotter than someone saying they want to kiss you and waiting for your yes. Just kinda exist in a social space and be kind and warm and go out of your way to help and good shit will happen.
Also StopShot. May I offer some advice?
May 16, 2021 7:16 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #35
Most co-ed sports are 1) not competitive, and 2) things where strength differences hardly matter, like softball, etc
I think going out for the purpose of finding someone to get with isn't the play. Just, when you're doing things, engage with people you find interesting/attractive/whatever. You gain nothing by being afraid to talk to them and choosing not to, y'know? And you lose nothing if you strike out.
May 16, 2021 7:57 p.m.
@Grubbernaut, LeaPlath, sorry, I had to be out for a bit. I would like to message the both of you, but I'm unsure how private messaging works on Tappedout if that is a function on this site. I would definitely appreciate any advice I can get on this.
May 16, 2021 8:12 p.m.
DemonDragonJ: I would recommend against trying to pick up hobbies as a reason to meet women. While it's true that there is a social aspect in co-ed sports, you need to think about hte reason that each of the people is doing the activity.
Just like with MtG, if a person is doing a hobby for their enjoyment, it can be really offputing to have someone try to hit on them. And even worse is someone who is just there for the sake of trying ot hit on people. In that scenario, you don't even have the common activity to bond over (since you're not there for the enjoyment of the activity).
Without going into a huge amount of detail, step one would be being comfortable being single. As much as it's nice to be in a relationship, you need to be comfortable not being in one and need to make sure that being in a realtionship doesn't become the driving force for every interaction with the sex you're attracted to.
And if you want to take up a more social activity in the attempt to meet people (I'm talking new hobby here, not just going to a bar) then great - but just satrt with that. Do NOT make it about finding someone. Make sure that it's clear in your mind that you're not there to try and meet someone. And don't try and force any friendships. If you have to force something, it probably isn't going to work.
The biggest thing to remember is that surprise, surprise, women are just people too. Treating them as such and not just as "someone to be in a relationship with" will be the best thing you can do for yourself.
May 16, 2021 8:55 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #38
LeaPlath, are you speaking to me? If so, what did I say that was "off putting," to use your phrase?
May 16, 2021 10:34 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #39
Peoyogon Believing people just because they said something happened is, at best, foolish and, at worst, dangerous and life ruining. An opinion of whether or not something is true should not be based on a story that has no evidence. I'm not saying you should assume everyone is lying about their experience but saying "believe them" is no different than saying "assume they are lying." Both can be extremely detrimental especially in today's day and age.
July 9, 2021 2:46 a.m.
DarkMagician, I am not here to change your mind on anything but I do strongly disagree with your assessment of the situation here. In order to fully understand the scope of this problem (the disparity of men and women's participation and patronage of LGSs) it is fundamentally imperative that women's experiences are taken into account. Even from the most pragmatic of lenses, you simply need this in order to fully define the scope of the problem – how else would you define the issue? You need women's perspective since it is ultimately the crucial data you need in order to begin defining the problem's range and hope to extrapolate any differences and trends within that data. It is a complex social phenomenon we are discussing, not a chemical reaction; your variables are fluid social mechanisms and your data is human experiences and interactions, of which you cannot observe entirely by yourself.
Beyond this though, fully valuing a person's input and perspective is simply offering basic dignity and respect. I am not saying that a group of vigilantes be rounded up when someone comes to you with an issue – that is not what believing someone is about. Instead, validate that person when they disclose their experiences by helping them take the next steps for them to feel safe. This can be something as complex as initiating contact with your LGSs management about sexual harassment or as simple as checking-in with a friend during a particular event. If you are hesitant about offering support in this way, the most important thing is seriously just listening to their experience. I mean really listen, without interruption, without pity, and without immediate knee-jerk reaction. At the end of the day, isn't that how all conversations should go? How are you ever going to have an honest conversation with someone if you are questioning, dismissing, or reacting to their words without ever hearing their whole perspective? The difference here is that folks of marginalized communities have a history of not being heard and I think it's important to understand that, recognize your own feelings and go-to reactions, and purposefully shape your behaviors to counteract that.
That's just my perspective though. What do you think?
July 9, 2021 1 p.m.
DarkMagician Evidence is good, but in too many cases, harassment (sexual or otherwise) comes down to "Yes, you did" "No, I didn't". If you have evidence that something happened, report it properly and make sure the injured person is safe. If you don't have evidence, there's nothing to lose by asking someone to keep an eye on a potential problem.
"I don't have anything to back this up, but my friend told me she was being harassed by this guy, and she isn't feeling welcome or safe here. Could you please keep an eye out for anything? I appreciate it."
"Sorry to bother you, but I think I saw a guy being bullied and threatened in the back, and I want to make sure this isn't a regular problem. Do you have a second to talk with us?"
July 9, 2021 1:36 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #42
I just received an alert that a user posted in this thread, but I do not see any new posts, here, so why did I receive that alert?
November 21, 2023 8:31 p.m.
sergiodelrio says... #43
DemonDragonJ It was a classic [spampost]+Delete infinite combo
Profet93 says... #2
I think it's just about values. Most women don't value trading card games but have been raised to value other aspects. I think more women should get in the game. I had a few at my LGS, but most of them would play Dungeons and Dragons or another table top game, not so much MTG.
I think you should start them young like they do for boys. We have ads for card games mostly after tv shows that men watch, not so much tv shows that women primarily watch (Ex: Real Housewives). Maybe get a MTG School club and try to include more women that way, they become addicted to MTG early on
May 15, 2021 7:37 p.m.