How Meta Will Planeswalkers be?
Standard forum
Posted on Jan. 4, 2016, 4:52 p.m. by amazingdan
With the new Oaths and things comboing with Planeswalkers, how meta will they be? I can see five-color Planeswalker decks running around all over Standard, especially control-type decks. However, this might just be another hyped-up deck type that will fall flat, like Eldrazi processors, Enchantments, and Allies(although Allies are semi-playable). If they do turn out to be viable, what will this mean when developing sideboards and just building decks in general? Keep in mind, we'll need enchantment hate for the new Oaths as well as Planeswalker hate if they turn out to be viable.
Darkmagi1131 says... #3
I think walkers will be more popular in older formats like modern and EDH rather then standard. I don't think that there are enough decent walkers in standard to make a good superfriends deck. Personally I'm trying out a Tron Superfriends deck using Oath of Nissa. Urza's Descendants
January 4, 2016 5:04 p.m.
Yeah, move it away. Walkers stand no realistic chance of becoming a thing in modern. There's no purpose of talking about walkers in that format, esp. considering how mediocre the oath cards are in that format.
January 4, 2016 5:16 p.m.
Well we could see Ruinous Path go up in price, possibly even before the set releases just in terms of pre-game hype. Utter End too.
Five color walkers I'm going to have to shoot down. It isn't logical. Too slow. If there are Super Friends decks floating around they're going to stay within their three color range. Maybe a decent four color will show up, but I feel like the most strategic and competitive value will remain in the realm of three colors.
There's no walker available that's a true self contained win condition. (i.e. Elspeth, Sun's Champion + Karn Liberated . Not only do you need to resolve these walkers in multiples but be able to guarantee their safety.
That's hard to do with a five color range.
January 4, 2016 5:30 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum(auto-generated comment)
January 4, 2016 5:30 p.m.
amazingdan says... #8
pumpkinwavy I don't know what your meta is, but mine is made up of primarily 4-5 color Jace decks. With the new Nissa, Jace, new-ish Nissa, Gideon, Liliana, Narset, Ugin, and Obby, not to mention the Oaths and manlands, I don't see how it would be slow. Mana-fixing is almost ridiculously easy now, with the Fetches combined with the BFZ lands. I'm not saying all of the Planeswalkers I mentioned above would be playable in the deck, but some modification to the 4/5 color control decks could turn them into Planeswalker-oriented powerhouses.
Darkmagi1131 As mentioned above, there are plenty of value Planeswalkers in Standard ATM. There will certainly be solid attempts in older formats at Planeswalker decks, as evidenced by your deck above, but I don't think it will actually become any kind of meta.
This is all just speculation. I'm honestly just playing devil's advocate. Yes, aggro decks will make it harder to build Planeswalker decks. Yes, Standard has few Planeswalkers that will be played beyond it. And they might just turn out like the decks that "fell flat" I mentioned above.
January 4, 2016 5:37 p.m.
MrMcDouble says... #9
Honestly Bant Superfriends seems like it could be a viable deck in Standard after Khans rotates out.
January 4, 2016 6:24 p.m.
Bant superfriends is always on the brink of being a deck in standard, it seems. Bant has access to a nice chunk of the wheel, almost always has mana efficient threats, and curves out nice to walkers and decent creatures. Still, the archetype is almost always vulnerable to clunky hands and being relatively slow for a midrange deck. I don't really see those things changing much.
January 4, 2016 6:33 p.m.
amazingdan says... #11
I agree with the Bant Superfriends. AsTheDevicer said, it has potential, but it has it's downfalls. I might try to tinker with one and post it here, unless someone beats me to it.
January 4, 2016 6:44 p.m.
Is it possible that the oaths make Sarkhan Unbroken playable? Nissa's oath more often than not will replace itself as well as make casting him easier. Jace's will help dig and manipulate the top of your library to keep your draws relevant. Plus the red oath hasn't been spoiled so there is potential there. There is already talk about red midrange decks going around with what's been spoiled. Temer already has Savage Knuckleblade, Rattleclaw Mystic, and other finishers like Sagu Mauler and Omnath, Locus of Rage. 3 damage isn't as relevant unless you run into Mantis Rider often, so things like Wild Slash and Fiery Impulse are solid options. So I could see a tempo based deck that beat face with some fatties being possible.
Not to mention there is an actual Temur Superfriends deck that is possible. There is the new Nissa and Chandra in Oath of the Gatewatch, we already have Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, Sarkhan Unbroken, the 3 flip walkers in origins (which can be found with Nissa's oath), Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, and Kiora, Master of the Depths. That's 9 different walkers that could potentially be included, if you can find enough early support (which I think red and blue has) to go along with the ramp green provides then this is another deck that has potential to be made.... keep in mind these are just ideas I'm not judging their play-ability yet.
January 4, 2016 7:07 p.m.
wakawakawaka says... #14
i feel like planeswalkers in standard should be impactful enough without oaths, like the new chandra or bfz gideon.
to me the oaths spoiled so far are like bad cantrips with a bit of synergy with a powerful tribe, a little like Llanowar Empath.
January 4, 2016 7:14 p.m.
It simply could be that they end up just being story telling cards, but the power level is definitely pushed beyond just a typical limited rare. So, while it's very possible that there isn't a deck that revolves on using multiple oaths.... I don't see why there couldn't be a deck that got value from running one. I think the biggest downside is in Jace's since his relies on you keeping one or more walkers alive on the board. Nissa's and Gideon's provide future value for the walker already in hand or when you draw into one so there is less of a downside in those. Nissa's more often than not will be a 1 mana cantrip with potential upside when you cast a walker and Gideon's is a 3 cmc sorcery speed Raise the Alarm with potential upside when you cast a walker. Neither of those are necessarily bad plays, so with deck tuning their downsides are mitigated.
January 4, 2016 7:33 p.m.
amazingdan says... #16
I threw something together. It's more of a Bant goodstuff/superfriends, but it was a rush job. It can obviously be improved upon. Deck:
Bant Superfriends
Standard*
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 1 VIEWS
pumpkinwavy says... #2
The best "enchantment and planeswalker hate" card I can think of is Monastery Swiftspear. With that as part of the metagame, I can't see how an insanely slow, clunky deck will ever succeed, especially when they're devoting so many slots to enchantments and planeswalkers.
January 4, 2016 5:02 p.m.