Is Thought Scour being played?
Modern forum
Posted on Nov. 16, 2014, 3:26 a.m. by Death_The_Kid
I heard some talk of Thought Scour being played in U/R delver to fill the grave? Or even throwing the opponent off tempo. Is this a thing? I guess it fuels Treasure Cruise up faster but is it worth it?
Death_The_Kid says... #3
well Delver turn one is one of the best turn one plays lol I mean maybe as a replacement to Serum Visions? or if you are playing a real graveyard based deck? lol
November 16, 2014 3:34 a.m.
People are playing it as a 2 of in some lists.It's by far the weakest card in the deck but it's okay for fueling cruise a bit quicker.
November 16, 2014 3:42 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
Why bother? Mill 2 is so much worse than scry 2.
As NorthernRaven said, it doesn't really make sense to waste card slots and mana trying to make Treasure Cruise cheaper. It also doesn't do anything to tempo.
As for filling the grave, it's better to run cantrips that have more relevant effects.
November 16, 2014 3:45 a.m.
It's an instant speed cantrip that pumps swiftspear and fuels treasure cruise. There aren't really better cantrips to be running in the slot, just more removal.
November 16, 2014 3:49 a.m.
Death_The_Kid says... #8
lol thanks for the feed back guys I thought it sounded a bit odd. also can you guys list some good cantrips for U/R delver aside from Visions and Probe?
November 16, 2014 3:50 a.m.
There aren't any. The only other one people play is some lists play a single Sleight of Hand but they don't play it over Thought Scour
November 16, 2014 3:51 a.m.
I play 4 of them with 4 probe and 4 visions in my U/R delver. It supercharges my cruse and since I'm playing 16 creatures I don't mind milling my threts as much as normal delver decks do.
November 16, 2014 7:49 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #11
It's only played (and yes, it is played) to make Treasure Cruise easier to cast. It's very unnecessary, but people are still doing it right now.
November 16, 2014 9:02 a.m.
A lot of people are overlooking the other interactions. Yes, Thought Scour would probably not be played to only fuel Treasure Cruise. However it's still an instant speed cantrip that -
Triggers prowess on Monastery Swiftspear.
Makes elementals for Young Pyromancer.
Makes Snapcaster Mage a cantrip.
The deck is in the market for some number of instant speed cantrips and Thought Scour has more interactions with the deck than say Peek or other Modern legal ones since you can't play Brainstorm.
November 16, 2014 9:21 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #13
You're absolutely correct on those counts. However, I still feel the deck would be better off with another cheap burn spell. Thought Scour is being played in Twin decks to go up to four Dig Through Time, and the argument there is that it can mess with Serum Visions. I'm not a fan myself.
November 16, 2014 9:23 a.m.
It can only mess with serum visions if you're very very very bad.
November 16, 2014 11:13 a.m.
That's like saying you don't like fetch lands because they shuffle away your scrys
November 16, 2014 11:13 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #16
It's actually legitimate. If your opponent keeps both cards on top, Thought Scour both messes with their plan and gives you a lot of information about what their plan is.
I meant to say I'm not a fan of the card Thought Scour, as messing with opposing scrys and fueling delve spells doesn't seem worth it to me.
November 16, 2014 11:16 a.m.
It's a low risk cantrip with reasonable reward. It lets you have turn 3 1 mana treasure cruises and it's instant speed.
November 16, 2014 11:18 a.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #18
Thought Scour has ALWAYS been paired with Delver. Sure, it's definitely not as good as Serem Visions, but that's why you run them alongside each other. And that's a Magical Christmasland statement you've made there xlaleclx. You're only getting ONE turn three one mana Treasure Cruise, and you've spent your entire early game two-for-oneing yourself to make ONE card in your deck better when you should have instead been playing your Delver on turn one...
November 16, 2014 11:29 a.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #19
Thought Scour is better used to disrupt your opponent than to enable yourself. Just that simple.
November 16, 2014 11:30 a.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #20
Also, since when is Treasure Cruise a larger priority than Snapcaster Mage?
November 16, 2014 11:32 a.m.
Nubby... do you even play magic?... Nothing you just said is remotely reasonable for anyone who does lol
November 16, 2014 11:38 a.m.
@NuBByThuMB: Right now. In delver, Treasure Cruise is better than Snapcaster Mage. There's a reason a lot of the top winning delver lists are CUTTING Snapcaster Mage for Treasure Cruise. If they don't then they usually cut down on the amount of snapcasters to 1-3. But rarely 4. Treasure Cruise is broken. Period.
November 16, 2014 11:40 a.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #23
How is spending three cards and your first two turns milling yourself blindly profitable? If you're looking to get off a single Treasure Cruise for a single blue mana, that would require three Thought Scour in your opener. I guess I'm none too sure why you want to waste your early game so blindly. That just seems reckless to me, especially when you mill your own Snapcaster Mages because you don't have enough mana to do anything other than thought scour yourself!
November 16, 2014 11:43 a.m.
When did anyone say anything about playing 3 thought scours?...
November 16, 2014 11:44 a.m.
And that's a Magical Christmasland statement
I can do better. T1 Fetchland, Thought Scour, Gitaxian Probe. T2 Thought Scour - which means you now have eight cards in librayr and can Treasure Cruise on Turn 2. In fact with both Thought Scours you only need a fectchland or a Gitaxian Probe to have Turn 2 cruise since each one is three cards in the yard.
Christmas for everyone.
But really this demonstrates why these lists are interested in having a small number of Thought Scour. It's not about powering out Treasure Cruise as early as possible, but it gives you a lot of fuel to snap it off on Turn 4-5 when you want to rebuild your hand. Especially for building it up during someone's end step when they might have played their turn out not expecting to need to fight over a Treasure Cruise.
November 16, 2014 11:45 a.m.
If you play two fetches, a thought scour and another cantrip or a bolt or something you can cruise for 1 mana on turn 3...
November 16, 2014 11:46 a.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #27
I still only count six cards in grave on that scenario...
November 16, 2014 11:47 a.m.
Then play another spell or another fetch land. The deck runs 10 fetches and is basically mono-cantrips.
Have you ever played modern before? I'd be very surprised if you have.
November 16, 2014 11:48 a.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #29
I defer. I forgot thought scour was mill 2 and not mill1 . lmao
November 16, 2014 11:49 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #30
List I've been testing against lately has 4x Probe/Visions/Scour. It's a great cantrip late game that can help u hit that 2nd or 3rd cruise.
November 16, 2014 11:50 a.m.
I can't honestly say I have. I'm not a modern player. But it doesn't mean I don't have the right to make silly statements and be proven wrong for learning sake. Obviously the Hive Mind has proven me wrong as everyone appears to be doing it, but sometimes I think it's right to question the masses? I don't know. I suppose I'll leave this thread to people who know what they're talking about because my nonsense doesn't appear welcome here :P
November 16, 2014 11:52 a.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #32
That was weird. It logged me out, but posted my comment?
November 16, 2014 11:53 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #33
heres that exact list btw...
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8473&f=MO
November 16, 2014 noon
GlistenerAgent says... #34
This is why I don't feel Thought Scour is necessary. You don't need to cast Treasure Cruise on turn 3. Casting it at any relevant point is still very powerful. If you just play the game, your graveyard will fill up for the card, and you don't need to artificially put cards into the yard.
November 16, 2014 noon
NuBByThuMB says... #35
I mean, wouldn't you rather have better removal in place of Thought Scour? I understand what it means to be able to filter through your library. Hence all the fetches and cantrips, but it just seems to me that those cards are being wasted on a Recall when they could have actually been used to affect the board. That's just my thoughts on the matter.
November 16, 2014 12:02 p.m.
Thoughtscour sets up very explosive draws with early treasure cruises. It allows you to fill up your graveyard later in the game to ensure you're able to keep chaining treasure cruises. There's no risk to playing it. It's a cheap instant speed cantrip that you can fire off EoT while still holding up counters.
November 16, 2014 12:04 p.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #37
I bet Thought Scour feels awesome when you mill Treasure Cruise...
November 16, 2014 12:05 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #38
NuBByThuMB I think I saw a list running Noxious Revival for that very reason.
...also it does affect the board, as pointed out it pumps Monastery Swiftspear, Gives u a Young Pyromancer token and snappy can hit it to give u a body & a card.
November 16, 2014 12:11 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #39
I'd rather just play Magma Spray or Pillar of Flame and some other cards (don't know what those would be) instead. Spray does two of those three things, and losing the card draw off of Snapcaster seems completely fine when you're removing their threats. It's also especially good against Pod.
November 16, 2014 12:14 p.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #40
I feel like gunning for Treasure Cruise makes Delver decks much more solitaire-esque and less reactive, which is something a control deck doesn't want? Especially when there's an opponent across the board actually doing something. Thought Scour seems fine in small amounts and only at instant speed (obviously). But I don't think it's honestly worth four slots. Of course, this is coming from a guy who doesn't play the format. So what do I know?
November 16, 2014 12:18 p.m.
Wow. This thread is full of scour haters. I don't understand why you wouldn't play 4. It's a can trip that fuels cruise and snapcaster. Can't get much better than that. It made the top 8 at GP Madrid so it's doing something right.
November 16, 2014 12:28 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #44
It's certainly a playable card. I'm just saying that I don't think it's necessary to play, since you could just cast a burn spell in its spot and still be fine with Treasure Cruise. Playing it mainly to fuel the card just seems unnecessary, even it if is an instant-speed cantrip.
November 16, 2014 12:40 p.m.
begin 2-cents insertion
Thought Scour isn't the BEST plan for sure, but even running 4 you aren't always going to see it opening hand. the goal of running the scour isn't to "combo into Treasure Cruise turn 3. it's to hold on to it, play it when you have nothing else to do, and then profit off of the THREE cards that get put into your yard.
November 16, 2014 12:58 p.m.
I play UR delver every day on MTGO, I've been switching up a lot of builds. My best win percentage has been with one Thought Scour in the board; it isn't for powering off a turn 2 or 3 Treasure Cruise! It's best for helping you get off a later cruise and letting you draw another card. Eventually delver runs low on steam, and it doesn't always have the yard state to cast a second or third Treasure Cruise.
It can be used early but has best value later. It's by no means a 100% necessary card, but in my experience there is room for one or two.
November 16, 2014 10:12 p.m.
Death_The_Kid says... #47
so am i to understand that it can be a good budget cantrip if needed?
November 16, 2014 11:44 p.m.
You're to understand that it's a 3-4 of in pretty much every single UR delver list that has 4-0'd dailies.
November 16, 2014 11:46 p.m.
It doesn't compare to Serum Visions as a can trip. It serves a very specific purpose in cruise decks. I would play Peek or Gitaxian Probe as bugdet can trips. Or Sleight of Hand
November 16, 2014 11:47 p.m.
You're to understand that the top 8 rug deck played 1 and it's only deck building difference was cutting swift spear for goyf and changing shock lands?
Not everyone is playing scoure as a 4 of. Personally I run extra burn in its place, helps with the pod matchup.
The_Raven says... #2
I doesn't throw the opponent of tempo. Unless they are scrying a lot.....
I also don't think, that it's worth it to pay 1 mana, so Treasure Cruise can be 2 mana less expensive. I would rather play Delver on turn 1 than this card :D
November 16, 2014 3:30 a.m.