MS: Brazen

Lore forum

Posted on May 3, 2017, 12:04 p.m. by AgentGreen

Today's story is from the POV of Gideon as he continues the trials, and only starts to understand the Cruel Reality of the trials

clayperce says... #2

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May 3, 2017 12:12 p.m.

AgentGreen says... #3

clayperce I have been doing that

Syntax should be bellow

What I entered

May 3, 2017 12:26 p.m.

Phaetion says... #4

So, it appears that Beefslab is finally coming to his senses. I wonder though: Was Bontu within the right here? I mean, she did rip apart Gideon for his hubris and his judgments.

May 3, 2017 12:30 p.m.

AgentGreen says... #5

Phaetion Her trial, her rules, her domain.

She was in her rights to tell off Gids.

But in doing so; only embolden the man. He's pissed, and he wants to kick Bolas' ass

May 3, 2017 12:38 p.m.

DarkLaw says... #6

Aaaand Bontu, like every other black-aligned character, fails to consider what ultimate power would actually mean. There's no need to get more powerful past a certain point- otherwise, the power you have loses meaning.

Really, then, someone should just give Bolas ultimate power to beat him. Easier said than done, I guess.

But for now, enjoy everyone's favorite Gideon suck at killing 4/3s for some reason and later have another crisis after he fails to so much as scratch big bad boy Bol'.

May 3, 2017 12:56 p.m.

clayperce says... #7

Weird. I've no idea then ...

May 3, 2017 1:04 p.m.

Zaueski says... #8

I liked this episode, Gideon is finally waking up to the reality of Amonkhet and I like his determination... I could see him pulling a Trial of Ambition though to take down Bolas and sacrifice himself to free the plane

May 3, 2017 1:04 p.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #9

I LOVED this story...just so well written and significant to Amonkhet. I enjoyed many of Bontu's wise quotes and Gideon's reactions/point of view. I am interested to find out more about Samut and what made her dissent.

May 3, 2017 4:12 p.m.

RicketyEng says... #10

The idea has been thrown around a bit of the Trials being used as a method of forcing planeswalkers to spark. I had noticed that Djeru was named in Djeru's Resolve but there was no corresponding legendary creature. Now that we've met him in the story I wonder if he could possibly be a newly sparked planeswalker in the next set. I suspect that he will show up as a legendary creature at the very least.

May 3, 2017 4:42 p.m.

AgentGreen says... #11

RicketyEng You could be right; IF WoTC decides to make 6 walkers total in the block.

My guess is that we're going to see Jace and Bolas in the next set (As we need a new Jace, and Bolas is self-explanatory), and if they do add a 6th walker, it could be Djeru.

But it may not. My guess is that Djeru will finish all the trials; Hazoret will attempt to kill him and fail thanks to Gideon's Intervention.

May 3, 2017 5 p.m.

Zaueski says... #12


I don't know that we'll see a Jace... He could always be in the next block because Jace, Unraveler of Secrets doesn't rotate until then.

Having Jace be in the new set upsets their walker color pie... (Hybrid walkers count as .5) Currently we have:

White: 1

Blue: .5

Black: 1

Green: .5

Red: 0

Now add in Bolas and your supposed Jace...

White: 1

Blue: 2

Black: 1.5

Green: .5

Red: .5

If we take out the mono blue Jace, it gets a bit more balanced. To fit the color pie the best, the fifth walker will probably be Red or Green or both

White: 1

Blue: 1

Black: 1.5

Green: .5-1.5

Red: .5-1.5

May 3, 2017 5:53 p.m.

greyninja says... #13

The Hand that Moves left me feeling inspired and hopeful; Brazen left me feeling sick and defeated lol

I agree, too, that Bolas is farming for planeswalkers. Question: are sparks only ignited when the pw is young? Bolas likely killed off the older generation to erase the history of the plane and start fresh with young minds; but it could also serve other purposes (as mentioned)

May 3, 2017 5:54 p.m.

Zaueski says... #14

This all also falls under the assumption that our Benign overlord Bolas has not color-shifted too lol

May 3, 2017 5:55 p.m.

Delta-117 says... #15

I liked this story, it was well written and was a great expansion to the magic story.

May 3, 2017 10:03 p.m.

DuTogira says... #16

Can we please either make Gideon boros or just kill him off already?
As far as being the poster-boy for white, he is completely lacking in compassion and healing (seriously, he's NEVER been seen to prioritize saving a child/innocent over "completing the quest"). The only exception is in this story when he offers to take the place of one of the four initiates that would be needed to stand on a set of pillars, and even then Gideon offers no resistance when told that he's too valuable to leave behind, and is off-set by the fact that Gideon allows Hepthys to sacrifice himself to the amitt so that Gideon has... more time to run? Why does the indestructible guy need a head start to get away? Instead Gideon is entirely focused on the protection/destruction elements of the color, as evidenced by the fact that Gideon tries to kill every living thing which kills an initiate. You know what color identity does protection/destruction well? Boros. His lack of compassion is not to be confused for his inability to handle loss, his tendency to fight for a greater good, nor with his friendly nature. Being an easy to talk to do-gooder and being unable to take a loss are not part of white's color pie.

As a character, Gideon has seen no major development despite being constantly confronted with his flaws. In Chandra's case, she become an abbot of Keral Keep for a time, and sought guidance on controlling her rage from Nissa. Nissa herself has been having to learn how to be social (WIP) and not to rely on those talents she's comfortable with (evidenced by her having to adjust to kaladesh after zendikar, and find non leyline power sources on Amonket). Jace... ill leave that alone. Even Liliana is starting to question the value of friends, and whether they may be worth having as opposed to using them as tools. Gideon though? His solution to being confronted with character flaws is consistently "I just need to be more determined and stubborn."

I'll also admit to being annoyed with the fact that every Gideon card becomes an indestructible soldier in one way or another. It reflects the fact that Gideon has had next to no character development. He's just the indestructible tank with an ego.

To cut a long rant short: as a poster child for white, Gideon is lacking in his ability to embody the color's full spectrum of traits, and as a character, he has seen next to no development despite having his flaws shoved in his face numerous times AND having plenty of room to grow within his color identity.

May 3, 2017 11:03 p.m.

greyninja says... #17

Maybe... maybe... Gideon figures out a connection between the gods and everlasting life->undeath

When you die on Theros; you're carried to the underworld, Nyx, right? (I didn't read that part of the story) Maybe they're not really dead, per se. It's all still part of the same plane. They might actually be able to walk in and grab Elspeth.

On Amonkhet when you die: you get up and hobble away lol

Gideon just manifests this magic differently because he carries it from plane to plane. His indestructibility is his power. Maybe he's not allowed to die unless he's on Theros?

The undead on amonkhet might also have to do w the three missing gods

May 4, 2017 1:08 a.m.

Homura_Akemi says... #18

DuTogira Amen.

May 4, 2017 5:35 a.m.

RicketyEng says... #19

I wish people would stop wishing for a death. There are other ways to write someone out of a story.

May 4, 2017 8:23 a.m.

DuTogira says... #20

In the case of Gids specifically, I don't think there's any other way to get him out of the jacetice league.
I'm not hungry for A death within the gatewatch... I'm just sick of having a mono white walker who can't seem to develop as a character but was created with a set of characteristics (stubborn and indestructible) that make him impossible to get rid of in any way other than death. So If gids dieing means we can get a mono white walker with some depth, and provides a reason for the gatewatch to grow up, I welcome it with open arms.

May 4, 2017 11:09 a.m.

DuTogira says... #21

OOOOO idea! Upone bolas' return, he uses the gods of ammonket to fight the gatewatch, giving bolas time to complete his plans for the plane. Jace and Chandra struggle with their gods but win (I don't think either would be that sad about killing their colors' respective deities, kefnet and hazoret), liliana delights in killing bontu because it's lili, Nissa tries to manipulate rhonas but ends up in a leyline fight for control of the God with bolas, and is only on even footing with the dragon because he's distracted by doing whatever he needs to do to ammonket, and Gideon has to fight and kill Oketra.
Losing a mono white deity for the second time could be that push Gideon needs to grow in literally any direction. Maybe he believes the multiverse to be inherently evil and thus goes rogue like garruk. Maybe he realizes that he has to be that compassionate figure that he's so desperately wanted to serve. Or maybe he gets angry and loses his shit and picks up red, or black.

So in short: God fight where Gids kills Oketra is an alternative to Gideon's death that would make me happy.

May 4, 2017 11:29 a.m.

WiltLeafElves says... #22

i could see gideon going gw, or even bant. bant is generally the colors for unity, much like the shard bant itself, and the green white part of the Abzan. while on ravnica, he found himself not always agreeing with the boros method, mainly because of the 'red' aspect. he likes the white sense of justice too much.

May 5, 2017 12:02 a.m.

DuTogira says... #23

Gideon is too proud for any combination of GW to fit him. I could see it if he calms down and learns to accept loss, becoming a compassionate rolemodel instead of a Templar stuck in "DEUS VULT" mode. As is... I don't think Gideon's character aligns with any color combination outside of the mardu wedge of possibilities.

May 6, 2017 4:32 a.m.

greyninja says... #24

White doesn't always have to be the good guy

Looks at cards like Wrath of God, Day of Judgment, Authority of the Consuls, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, etc

I feel like each plane kinda has its own interpretation of the color pie. Obviously each color has its own scope in terms of card types and abilities, but the stories seem to mix it up from time to time. I think it keeps it interesting

May 6, 2017 8:37 a.m.

DuTogira says... #25

I would agree with that if we were talking about any walker that wasn't one of the big 5.
Classic example: tezzeret is my favorite walker, but he completely lacks the patience a blue-blue/black walker should posses. And that's fine, because he's tezzeret, and being an arrogant ass whose hubris impairs his judgements and undermines his patience is part of his character.
Gideon is different because he's not just supposed to be Gideon. He's supposed to be THE white walker. That means both soldier AND medic, and it's not ok for Gids to be stuck on soldier all the time because white as a color is deeper than that.

Honestly... I think the bigger issue here is that white is over saturated with main characters. It started with Ajani (who, by the way, does EVERYTHING white should do, both proving it's possible and providing a new challenge in making Gids complete without making him Ajani 2.0), then we got Elspeth (also a complete white walker, but more soldier than healer and struggled with loss), and now we have Gids.
Compare that to red (Chandra, that's it), blue (jace, that's it), black (just lili), and green (garruk and Nissa), and white is revealed as way more poster child heavy than the other colors, which makes developing Gids harder because he can't be like Ajani nor elspeth.

So I mean I get the struggle the writers are going thru, and it's not so much that I want Gids dead, but if WotC decides Ajani and elspeth wouldn't cut it for THE white walker, I expect better than a 1 dimensional soldier who only covers half the color's traits when two pre-existing walkers (one from the original 5) who cover the entire spectrum of whites attributes already existed. And yes elspeth was a candidate because we find Gids on theros, where elspeth died. It could have been just as easy to forestall the gatewatch and have Ajani venture to the underworld to retrieve elspeth - leaving Gids as a tragic Hercules - as it was to make him the next mono white walker.
So again, I sympathize with how hard developing Gids can be... but wotc brought it on themselves, and I won't accept THE white walker only embodying a sub-set of the color's traits. So either find a way to make him not mono white so gids' character can continue down the crusader's path, or find a way to make him grow into the traits he lacks. But don't tell me this is what it means to be white now.

May 7, 2017 5:36 a.m.

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