How Good is Temple Bell?
General forum
Posted on March 10, 2024, 12:43 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I have a copy of Temple Bell in many of my EDH decks, and many players have told me that it is not a good card, because it gives my opponents additional resources, but that does not bother me, because it is free card advantage (after paying its initial cost) and the effect is symmetrical, so, in games with more than two players, I am assisting all players equally. Many players have said to me that, in a typical four-player game of EDH, my opponents are drawing three cards while I am drawing one, and that would be a problem in archenemy format, but a normal game is a free-for-all, not three against one.
Plus, I always use the bell during the end step of the player who is immediately before me, to ensure that I can immediately use the card that I draw, so I fail to see why so many players think that that card is a bad card.
What does everyone else say about this? How good of a card is Temple Bell?
I think it has a lot of merit as a political card. Activate it opportunely for yourself as a default, but if someone wants to draw a card for free, they can make a small deal with you. "Don't attack me with that big boi this turn and I'll activate the bell." This makes paying three mana for potenial favours each turn quite worth it.
Symmetrical effects aren't terrible because whilst everyone is your opponent by game rules, that doesn't mean they're all your opponent. Friends can be made in a moment; just be scrupulous.
March 10, 2024 3:13 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #4
wallisface, I completely understand that, and your point is absolutely valid, but it is one of my pet cards, and I personally think that it is underrated, since it has actually been very useful to me, on numerous occasions.
Please do not think that I do not value your feedback, but I simply feel that that card fits into my play style, which is why I am so fond of it.
Idoneity, that is exactly why I like that card; despite the fact that it is symmetrical, it is absolutely possible to use it strategically, to curry favors with other players in the game.
March 10, 2024 3:14 p.m.
wallisface says... #5
DemonDragonJ this thread was just a question of how good the card is - and the answer is that it is not.
You’re welcome to use whatever cards you want - but the point of creating this thread seems a bit moot if the question asked is irrelevant to you.
March 10, 2024 4:13 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #6
wallisface, I understand that, and I do hope that I did not appear to be rude with my response, because I was still very grateful for your response.
March 10, 2024 4:14 p.m.
Idoneity - Symmetrical effects are often bad for table politics, providing you are playing with decent players. The same reason Temple Bell is a bad card for its caster makes it a bad card for other players - if you bargain “I will not attack you if you use the Bell” you are giving up freedom of attack and giving your opponents three cards, just to draw one.
Quite frankly, I think “But I could use this for politics” is a really, really bad reason to run a card and, if that is the only reason you can come up with to keep a card in your deck, you should cut it. You do not need “political cards” to play politics - you just need the ability to strike a deal with other players. You can do that just as easily with a Swords to Plowshares as you can with any political card, but the Swords also has utility beyond just politics.
March 10, 2024 6:20 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #8
Temple Bell is actively bad in decks that are not punishing draws and exploiting that as their main theme or in decks that are shutting off the extra draws for opponents. Even in decks that are punishing draws, much of the time you would rather a burst of draw for each person.
Calling Temple Bell "card advantage" without shutting off the draws for your opponents also completely misunderstands what card advantage is. You go down a card and mana as wallisface mentioned and then each activation is zero sum in regards to card advantage.
March 10, 2024 6:57 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #9
The Zurzoth, Chaos Rider-player activated Temple Bell pre-combat for some extra devils while saying "What's the worst that could happen?", and the opponent miracled out Devastation Tide to answer the question xD
March 10, 2024 7:14 p.m.
SteelSentry says... #10
I love playing one or two group hug cards in all my lower power decks, but there's better options that have been printed. Pendant of Prosperity is a personal favorite, either allying with one player or giving the player in last place a Faustian deal to get them back in the game, for a price. Share the Spoils isn't good for every deck with red, but plenty of decks play cards that aren't too tempting, and when the pool is mostly your cards it plays like a discount Outpost Siege.
March 10, 2024 8:36 p.m.
Caerwyn —— This is where we hold a different opinion. Card advantage in two-player formats, I believe, is different than in four-player. Giving other players cards that they probably won't use against you is kind of like drawing cards for yourselves and using them against your foe, but you don't even have to spend mana.
If we're keeping it case-by-case, Swords to Plowshares is a good card and it can stop aggression once you use it, but you need a few kill spells beyond the first one to actually stop a player from attacking you. Once the swords is used, it's used, and that's an invitation for calamity.
March 10, 2024 8:53 p.m. Edited.
It's really great in my The Council of Four deck.
Cards are rarely always bad or always good. It all depends on how the card fits into a particular deck.
March 11, 2024 11:25 a.m.
I say Phyrexian Arena and Outpost Siege are both much better options unless your deck wants to give your opponents resources
March 11, 2024 12:50 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #17
shadow63, how is it too slow compared to the two cards that you mentioned, considering that those cards have triggered abilities, while BMC has an activated ability?
March 11, 2024 9:37 p.m.
You basically need to sacrifice a land for underwood connections
March 11, 2024 9:48 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #19
shadow63, perhaps that is true, from a certain perspective, but how many other cards can you name that allow a player to draw a card at any time, for no mana beyond their initial casting cost, and do not benefit that player's opponents?
March 11, 2024 9:49 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #20
Loran of the Third Path at least benefits less opponents, the white decks should probably opt for that one if it would be a choice.
March 11, 2024 10:16 p.m.
I would not say this is accurate: “ for no mana beyond their initial casting cost” - because you have to tap a land to activate the ability, you are forgoing one mana every time you play the card.
In effect, Underworld Connections Reads “, Pay 1 Life: Draw a card. Spend only mana from enchanted land to activate this ability.”
March 11, 2024 10:24 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #22
plakjekaas, I do, in fact, have Loran in several of my decks, already, so I shall keep her in mind for other decks, as well.
Caerwyn, in that case, is Underworld Connections not as good as is Temple Bell, or are they too dissimilar to be compared directly?
March 12, 2024 8:22 p.m.
SteelSentry says... #23
I think comparing group draw to individual draw is a mistake, because in all cases, from a "card advantage" point, giving cards to your opponent is bad. Temple Bell is de facto negative card advantage, that's not the point. Loran is only neutral card advantage because it disenchants on ETB. By all means play these cards; I surely do, but the reason you add card draw, unless you need the raw card velocity for some strategy, is to pull ahead in a fight you're outnumbered in.
March 12, 2024 8:33 p.m.
I would probably not compare Temple Bell to Underworld Connections. Underworld Connections other than to say they are both pretty mediocre cards in their own way. I think Temple Bell is probably the worse of the two--paying 1 mana and 1 life to draw a card is less punishing than letting your opponents draw cards--but I still would not run either.
March 12, 2024 9:15 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #25
Underworld Connections becomes a lot better when you can untap the enchanted land for more than one card a turn. Earthcraft, Wilderness Reclamation, Seedborn Muse, even Arbor Elf, Vizier of Tumbling Sands or Kiora's Follower would improve its use. But do keep in mind that this only becomes good if you focus your deck on untapping lands, this is unlikely to be worth it as "just a value engine" in decks.
wallisface says... #2
It’s worse than just a symmetrical effect - it costs you a resource (the card) to play it, as well as mana. There’s soo many downsides to this card and no inherent benefit.
March 10, 2024 1:48 p.m.