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Infinite disappearance


Description

Synergies:

Sundial of the Infinite + Mimic Vat = tokens that stay on the battlefield.

Sundial of the Infinite + Glimmerpoint Stag = permanent exile.

Sundial of the Infinite + Mimic Vat + Glimmerpoint Stag = permanent exile and a 3/3 vigilant and haste creature that stays on the battlefield.

Sundial of the Infinite + Venser, the Sojourner + Oblivion Ring = repeating permanent exile.

Why these work:

It's all about the timing of activating Sundial of the Infinite.

Both Mimic Vat and Glimmerpoint Stag have delayed triggered abilities which trigger once and only once. Thus, you allow the delayed triggered abilities to go on the stack during the end step, then activate Sundial of the Infinite to exile those abilities and they will never trigger again. This means that for Mimic Vat, the tokens will stay on the battlefield indefinitely. As for Glimmerpoint Stag, the permanent will stay in exile for the rest of the game.

The Vensor/O-Ring combo is slightly different. After casting Oblivion Ring, you allow it to resolve and enter the battlefield, exiling a permanent. Then, during your second main phase, you exile it with Venser, the Sojourner. Then Oblivion Ring's second triggered ability will go on the stack and you activate Sundial of the Infinite in response, exiling the ability so the permanent is exiled for the rest of the game. Now, since the end step never occurred, Oblivion Ring will return to the battlefield at the next end step, which will be your opponent's. Rinse and repeat.

samaca says...

#1

I love this deck idea, i had actually wanted to put together a deck like this but i just didn't have the cash for it. +1

August 2, 2012 10:12 p.m.

rushtowait says...

#2

You could try SB Cloudshift or Ghostly Flicker . They're pretty decent for your deck considering they could go off at instant speed. Also, you could consider Terminus if you could make more of your flickering/ETB at instant speed as the Miracle cost is really awesome.

August 2, 2012 10:17 p.m.

murderface726 says...

#3

Terminus is a bad idea, considering venser and sundial and mimic vat need to remain on the field. I could see early game, but mid to late game would be counter productive.

August 2, 2012 11:07 p.m.

bhrusson0 says...

#4

I could be mistaken but wouldn't the tokens only last as long as your opponents turn? The text on mimic vat specifically reads "until the next end step", it never specifies whose end step, just whenever the next end step is. Just like with Stonehorn Dignitary if you put in two on the same turn your opponent would skip the next two combat phases of theirs. So you are only prolonging how long you get your token by one turn. Which is meh.

August 3, 2012 7 a.m.

murderface726 says...

#5

If you read sundial, it removes anything on the stack, and just ends the turn. So, makin it so that the next end step never happened.

August 3, 2012 12:51 p.m.

rushtowait says...

#6

Urm, Terminus only affects creatures o.o

August 3, 2012 1:55 p.m.

murderface726 says...

#7

Oh yeah, my bad. Hmmm,what should i take out for it?

August 3, 2012 2:34 p.m.

bhrusson0 says...

#8

The next end step only changes. The next end step is no longer yours it becomes your opponents.

August 3, 2012 3:39 p.m.

Nephilim says...

#9

But if you wait until the beginning of your end step with the triggers on the stack, then respond by ending your turn with the Sundial, they stay around. The reason is that the triggers have already happened once, even if they didn't resolve. This was a huge thing a few months back at my FNM

August 3, 2012 7:55 p.m.

bsjguru says...

#10

Sorry to be a bubble buster but...

If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep).

Official ruling, 9/22/2011.

August 3, 2012 7:55 p.m.

Nephilim says...

#11

really... well then i got screwed hardcore because I would've won if it hadn't been for that deck... grrrr

August 3, 2012 8:40 p.m.

Nephilim says...

#12

wait, no sorry misread that... yes BEFORE the end step... but if you wait til end step and in response to the triggers (but before they resolve, it would work

August 3, 2012 8:41 p.m.

murderface726 says...

#13

Yeah, that's what I meant haga

August 3, 2012 8:47 p.m.

torridus says...

#14

I think you need more than 22 lands. It doesn't feel as though you'll have the opportunity to consistently cast what you want when you want it.

August 4, 2012 2:58 a.m.

murderface726 says...

#15

Yeah, I completely agree, not sure what to cut for it though, that's the problem.

August 4, 2012 3:55 a.m.

shakeyoface says...

#16

I wanted to make a deck similar to this, but then I realized anything you want to keep using sundial will trigger on your opponents end step because it says "THE next end step", not "Your next end step" which is unfortunate..

August 4, 2012 12:53 p.m.

Jokernaught says...

#17

One thing I don't think was quite as noticed was that Sudden Disappearance can wipe the opposing battlefield with only 7 mana thanks to Sundial of the Infinite . Sure it will come back, but atleast it will be at thier endstep.

August 4, 2012 12:57 p.m.

TheMadSwagger says...

#18

No. Sudden Disappearance would permanently wipe their board with Sundial.

August 4, 2012 1:17 p.m.

Jokernaught says...

#19

Alright I got some sitting me saying 'No' and I got half of tappedout saying yes. I can't find it anywhere on the net. Can someone give me a link?

August 4, 2012 1:24 p.m.

Jokernaught says...

#20

There is always a next endstep. Is it the next endstep directly after the spell resolves?

August 4, 2012 1:26 p.m.

BlckGaming says...

#21

Geist of Saint Traft + sundial of the infinite = keep the angel.

August 4, 2012 4:57 p.m.

murderface726 says...

#22

yeah i want that combo, but the same issue happens, i need to cut cards for it, should i cut fog banks and faiths shield for geist and terminus/lands. thoughts?

August 4, 2012 9:48 p.m.

There seems to be some confusion with this. I ran a deck using Glimmerpoint Stag , Mimic Vat , Sudden Disappearance , and Sundial of the Infinite . The Key thing to remember is that the sundial's effects only work on those abilities because it says "NEXT END STEP". This means it triggers ONCE, on THE NEXT endstep. It will NOT trigger on your opponent's step. Things that say "At the end step" will keep recurring at the end step of every player's turn. (I am a judge and TO so I know this rule quite well.)

August 5, 2012 2:14 p.m.

murderface726 says...

#24

Thank you FallenDefender, I know how it works, just could not make it clear. Thanks again for the clarification.

August 5, 2012 2:22 p.m.

netfasto says...

#25

you forgot this sinergy:

1 Sundial of the Infinite and Geist of Saint Traft tap sundial after the end of combat and you got an 4/4 angel permanently :-)

2 Sundial of the Infinite stop Snapcaster Mage trigger ability

this are ok

for the rest:

1 if you wont to stop Mimic Vat and Glimmerpoint Stag ability with Sundial of the Infinite this work only for 1 turn... the NEXT END STEP occur aniway

for this reason, in my similar deck, i use +3x Restoration Angel , +3x Cloudshift , +1x Stonehorn Dignitary , -2x Geist of Saint Traft , - 1x Sudden Disappearance , -4x Sundial of the Infinite

August 5, 2012 3:02 p.m.

Netfasto, you really aren't understanding how it works. The End step happens. YOU control which abilities go on. You put the ability you want to happen permanently on the stack. (The ability has been put on the stack which satisfies "The NEXT end step" part of the deal meaning it will never happen again.) Then you activate sundial, removing everything on the stack and keeping your effects permanently. I'm the highest level judge and have judged at multiple SCG opens and other tournaments. This is the official ruling.

August 5, 2012 10:32 p.m.

murderface726 says...

#27

For this deck, is divine reckoning better or day of judgment?

August 5, 2012 10:46 p.m.

Daveyhavok06 says...

#28

Sorry FallenDefender. Wizards rules against you as far as "Next End Step" triggers. Check Gatherer. Sure your end step is skipped. However your opponent's end step is not skipped. Thats when effects lIke with Glimmerpoint Stag resolve after activating Sundial of the Infinite . Check it out:

"If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep)."

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=228118

August 5, 2012 11:05 p.m.

You are reading the card and the rule wrong. This rule applies to "Beginning of the end step". We are talking about "Beginning of the NEXT end step" which is an entirely different category. That rule is true for the first situation but is NOT true for NEXT end step. You have to allow the end step to happen and abilities to go on the stack. We are not talking about skipping the end step, just stopping things from happening during it by getting rid of the other half of the effect. Before you question the ruling and try to back it up, make sure you have the right wording. Wording is everything.

August 5, 2012 11:10 p.m.

Daveyhavok06 says...

#30

The only thing that Sundial of the Infinite keeps permanent, if you activate at the right time, is keeping the angel token from Geist of Saint Traft on the battlefield. Read the rulings on Gatherer. The "NEXT END STEP" is your opponents if you activate Sundial of the Infinite on your second main phase. Their wording is correct. All the cards in question from this deck read "the next end step" not "the end step''. I don't see how this is unclear. Glimmerpoint Stag , Mimic Vat , Venser, the Sojourner , and Sudden Disappearance are all delayed until the the opponents end step if Sundial of the Infinite is activated during your end step.

August 5, 2012 11:35 p.m.

Daveyhavok06 says...

#31

Here's a good example. Sundial of the Infinite will keep Archwing Dragon on the field because it says "THE END STEP" which is yours, which you skip.

August 5, 2012 11:41 p.m.

DJMEDIVH says...

#32

Hey guys, there seems to be a lot of oppostion to FallenDefender on here so I'd like to throw some support his way. He has explained himself very clearly multiple times. This official magic ruling has been cited multiple times, rewritten here:

"If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep)."

This ruling is arbitrary to FallenDefender's point and the proper way to use this combo as you should not be activating Sundial of the Infinite BEFORE the end step but as the end step is occuring. Reread the first part of the first sentence to make this clear.

The order of events may help so I'll detail them starting at the second main phase:

  1. Activate Mimic Vat 's ability ->
  2. End your second Main Phase ->
  3. End Step begins ->
  4. Delayed trigger that would exile the created token is put on the stack ->
  5. Activate Sundial of the Infinite 's ability ->
  6. Delayed trigger that would exile the created token is exiled ->
  7. Turn Ends

Now note that the entirety of Mimic Vat 's ability has been resolved upon step 4. Therefore there is no reason the delayed trigger, from Mimic Vat , that would exile this specific token would be put on the stack at the beginning of your opponents next End Step.

August 6, 2012 3:26 a.m.

murderface726 says...

#33

Very well explained, thank you DJMEDIVH.

August 6, 2012 4:56 a.m.

Geldrin says...

#34

Also Seance could be a great addition to recycle creatures from graveyard... almost for free!

August 6, 2012 10:27 a.m.

murderface726 says...

#35

I was thinking seance, especially since I am running DoJ. Makes sense, not sure what to take out for it though...

August 6, 2012 7 p.m.

lllusionist says...

#36

HURR DURR NO IT'S YOUR OPPONENTS NEXT END STEP.

YOU BIG DUMB FAGGOT.

August 6, 2012 7:13 p.m.

murderface726 says...

#37

Lol who you talking to??

August 6, 2012 7:16 p.m.

Tomcruise says...

#38

This is a fantastic idea and I am impressed you have found such synergies, nice job man!

August 6, 2012 7:25 p.m.

Tomcruise says...

#39

This is a fantastic idea and I am impressed you have found such synergies, nice job man!

August 6, 2012 7:25 p.m.

Thank you for explaining that for me. le sigh Good Job explaining also.

August 6, 2012 8:45 p.m.

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TCGPlayer.com price Checkout

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$73.48 $121.27 $254.81
2 missing from calculation
Date added 1 year
Last updated 1 year
Legal formats Legacy, Vintage, Commander / EDH
Illegal cards Seachrome Coast , Ponder , Venser, the Sojourner , Day of Judgment , Mimic Vat , Glimmerpoint Stag , Mana Leak , Stonehorn Dignitary , Sundial of the Infinite , Blade Splicer , Solemn Simulacrum
Sets
Cards 60
Avg. CMC 3.19
Top rank #17 on 2012-08-08

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