psychosmurf96 was hoping to see a Grixis control deck NOT centred around the usual UR torrential control build.

I feel like rakdos splash U is the best, focussing on early removal, mid game threats and late game Nico. What do you think? I haven't drafted a list up yet, just looking around.

Nice username btw 10/10

pax. The Pre-hour build im playing a the moment is basically the RB splash blue with more removal and main deck discard and I noticed a huge problem in many weeks and revisions. We don't have 1 mana versatile discard to help us in the control match ups. BR base is for more of an aggro meta-game call. With the Blue being more prominent and making our 3 colors evenly distributed we can create a control deck with an above-average aggro and mid-range game 1 deck that has a 50/50 control match up with a primary weakness to combo. The BR splash U version was VERY weak to control in game 1. Also, I personally think that the Black has a crucial element in this shell that is being overlooked. We ultimately can function as a graveyard control deck, something UR critically lacks. UR can have the flaw of having all of your win-cons killed whether that's 4 Gearhulks, Chandra, and 2 wandering fumaroles like the traditional build, we can Utilize the Black Planeswalkers and Kalitas which are arguably better than gearhulks at least with the pre-hour build. I think it's just the best instants and sorceries in standard ARE UR so the non instant and sorcery cards kinda get the underlying value overlooked, Any Cards in particular you have questions on?

psychosmurf96 When you say discard, do you mean hand disruption (like Harsh Scrutiny) or do you mean discard for value (like Tormenting Voice)?

I don't see how making more prominent helps against aggro? Maybe against midrange you can counter heavier threats, but against aggro I think it's better to focus on for the sweepers and removal. Control matchups are going to be hard in game 1 if their draws line up, but I don't know any good control deck that isn't UR Gearhulk (and therefor very predictable and disruptable). They don't even run Void Shatter anymore so loading the graveyard isn't even that bad anymore.

On that note, I like the graveyard control idea - that's what I was leaning towards (using Liliana to reanimate creatures) and incorporating the still-great Delirium cards. In the mean time we have access to the best early interaction/removal. You win on value.

Basically all offers is Torrential Gearhulk + Glimmer of Genius with all the various counterspells, which are either too narrow or too expensive (except Censor which is still situational). So if you remove this core of 'counter, counter, glimmer, hulk' then the deck is nothing.

So I guess the question is, why is everyone sticking to Control and just adding Bolas (which doesn't even synergise) when you could just build a stronger Grixis shell with Bolas as the legitimate finisher?

pax. i guess I worded it weirdly, The addition of more doesn't make aggro better, is what makes the aggro match up a breeze/about 60/40 depending on what aggro deck we are facing. (humans being more 55/45) The does however make control a 50/50 game one where as a base has about a 30/70 control match up game one sue to the immense amount of dead draws we have.

By Discard i meant hand disruption yea. Part of why Grixis Control is so good in other formats on a base vs the standard base/core of has to be the varied amounts of hand disruption for only 1 mana. in modern you have Inquisition of Kozilek, Thoughtseize, and Duress. In legacy you get the previously mentioned cards but also Unmask and Cabal Therapy. I believe that is why most list look similar to UR Control. It also could be the idea of attacking different match ups. I focus more heavily on having a better match up vs control so I have a higher spell count and a lower spell count but to prepare for all in aggro those 2 amounts of cards could easily flip.

Have you considered Hour of Devastation? It is a great boardwipe, even better in a deck that uses bolas

Qolorful It's been considered but ultimately didn't make the cut, the biggest reason being that with our other planeswalkers, we are likely killing our own walkers. Chandra has either been Flame Slash or a damage spell the first turn she comes down. so if we plus her and then she takes even one damage the next turn hour would kill her, same goes for baby liliana, even by plussing all the way until turn 5, she dies too if even breathed on before then. Personally, Chandra is the most important card in the deck in a majority of match ups. She allows turn 5 Bolas, kills creatures, applies reach/card advantage, and wins with her ult. I decided to stick with sweltering suns instead in all of my sweeper slots for this reason, the reason I'd want hour over suns would mainly be for Eldrazi. So maybe if the Mono-red eldrazi or another eldrazi variant takes off I would reconsider and put 1 in the sideboard.

I actually am down for that reasoning. If Chandra is more important to the deck function hour of devastation would not work indeed. I think in the sideboard it would be a good option anyway, because sometimes you will end up needing to take out huge boards, or occasionally multiple planeswalkers. Most likely against decks that have solid protection against spot removal.

Great deck! And I want to say I was glad to see a control deck that doesn't include 26 lands when the curve peaks at 3 CMC. Good luck!

ramuzzini I'm glad you like the look of the list! the deck gets its first taste of action at my LGS's FNM this friday. The meta is usually Zombies, Monument, MAdness, UG Eldrazi ramp, and Vehicles but who knows what the new set will do to that.