Not going to lie, I'm tempted to pick up some of those Amonkhet Masterpieces just to say I pimped the deck with the series, but I think they're ugly as hell haha.

Plz no, your deck is beautiful, don't ruin it

I have to say, Quicken and Nihil Spellbomb in place of Night's Whisper and Tormod's Crypt have been working quite well. The instant speed card draw and tutor-acceleration has been stellar.

*Dark Petition, not Night's Whisper :p

Alexdagreat

That's good to hear, I wasn't considering making the change to spellbomb but you make a convincing argument. In playtesting Quicken has been very good so I think I'm gonna commit to it after Friday.

What's your meta like?

Yeah, would love to hear your feedback on that switch as well. Did you also take out Dark Petition? I found it was the tutor I always wanted to see the least in my hand and post-Ad Naus. Currently my meta includes a Yidris storm list, a modified version of Empyre Derevi which is absolutely lethal if not dealt with, and usually someone piloting either my Animar competitive deck or Food Chain Prossh. There's also an assortment of less tuned lists which show up and get promptly destroyed in the crossfire. My meta is pretty varied that way, so I've got to beat both Yidris and the stax lock and then find a line immediately.

Yep, I cut Petition. It hurts off naus, is sorcery speed, and only becomes good (IMO) in the late game. It forces a main phase ad naus but does a good job playing deluge, Yawg, etc.

The only time you'd really hold off playing a cantrip like Ponder to use with Dark Petition -> Doomsday would be after a hand refill off a wheel or a Necro, and it would have to have been a failed necro since you will need 6 mana up for DP + Ponder for even the no protection Yawg + LED line. Also the most common wheels (Twister/Spiral) also shuffle GY into library so you wouldn't even have spell mastery...

Very good point. I've found that it frequently sits in my hand until far too late, by which time casting Doomsday is hindered significantly. Lim Dul's and Enlightened get the job done post-Necro or Ad Naus, and Quicken with Yawg Will is certainly quite useful as well.

Alexdagreat How's the isochron scepter been for you? I've been convinced to give it another shot

Was actually going to ask you the same question. I was debating that as the auxiliary win. Are you thinking of removing Lab Man? I put Dramatic Reveral back in, and was thinking about putting Scepter back.

There's a Teferi deck (my new one) in my meta, and my friend pilots it really well. An unprotected Doomsday is suicide thanks to counterspell wars. I'm thinking of removing LED to compensate, that way Lab Man still remains if Aetherflux gets Grasped.

In second round of testing I'm still unhappy with the scepter. I thought instant speed DD piles were cool but it just doesn't perform well enough without saving dramatic reversal.

I think LED is too necessary to cut, you get fast Zur, 3 mana at end step before a large Necro hand, 3 mana before a main phase AD Naus resolves (if you are living on the edge) and even unprotected piles are worth it if blue players are tapped out. It's unlikely they have FOW/Pact/Daze? every time.

Fair point for both. I'll try Scepter again as well and give my results. I saw another list that subbed out Lab Man for Scepter, but I'm skeptical, as it seems too all-in for my taste. I think having the multiple wincons helps tremendously.

Was it this one? Zur Storm He's back to Lab man/DD again. He's a respected deckbuilder and also the one who convinced me to retest scepter. Hopefully I convinced him to put back Lab man/DD :D

Unless another wincon comes along I think Lab man + DD is too convenient a combo to not run.

Yep, that's it. He's definitely a good builder, but yours (and those it inspired) are the best Zur lists. I'd dare even say by quite a distance. Having Zur as a viable wincon, and lowering the curve as well, is the way to defeat Tazri, Thrasios, and those Hulk lists. I also removed Grim Tutor as well. Lim Dul's, Seal, and Enlightened made it useless.

His inclusion of Prairie Stream and Sunken Hollow is quite interesting through. I'm certainly intrigued. How have those been for you?

Thanks man! Yep, I wasn't happy with Grim tutor either.

His list is now pretty close to mine, he cut Time Spiral, Merchant Scroll, Notion Thief, a land, Counterspell, City of Brass, Mana Confluence to put in Paradoxical Outcome, Night's Whisper, Dark Confidant, Isochron Scepter, Dispel, tango lands.

I wouldn't say there's a noticeable power difference between our lists now that Lab Man/DD are back in his.

I'm not a fan of the tango lands since they can only be turned on by 2 islands. Playing 2 islands rather than fetches or duals (if you have access to both) in a wheel happy meta seems bad. I think having lands enter untapped T3 in a best case scenario in a fast combo deck is pretty bad too. The tango lands are only useful when you can fetch tapped at EOT and severely hinder development if they are the only on color lands in your hand T1. There shouldn't be that many turns where you take damage off the pain lands, but fixing color issues and entering untapped is huge IMO.

Very good point on those lands. I was debating Notion Thief as well after I saw his list, but kept it in mine. Dark Confidant I've always been iffy on. It always felt like a waste after turn 1 or 2. Paradoxical Outcome is a great card, but feels a bit winmore to me. Maybe you've had different results with it. Now with Teferi, my meta is Chain Veil, Animar, Yidris, and Prossh. Zur does very well, but that's because Shimmer Myr makes him a wincon in his own right, and the refinements help where if my draws aren't consistently advancing my game plan, I'm screwed. Honestly, I and my playgroup can tell you now your list is a huge improvement over the original.

I tried the original again, and it couldn't fight the Hulk decks now roaming the meta.

I agree, thief puts in too much work against other decks. I'm not really a fan of paradoxical either for exactly that reason.

I agree the shimmer builds are stronger now, if you saw that reddit ad naus simulator post you get on average 17 cards off an ad naus but with shimmer you get over 30 off Necro at a similar speed, and the 1 card combo is in the command zone. It broadcasts "stop Zur or probably lose" very hard but there are several must stop generals nowadays

I've been trying to think of what to replace Thief with. Any thoughts? I was thinking maybe another counter or removal spell. I get that he can be flashed in against a wheel effect, but he's dead draw a lot and is too costly most of the time. Yeah, I'd say Tazri, Thrasios, Yidris, and Teferi all fall squarely into that category.

I was debating RiP and maybe even Praetor's Grasp or Lightning Greaves for Zur given the speed of a Hulk deck that just arrived in my meta, and the fact that it slams Grand Abolisher in the combo line to shut off graveyard hate. And Dispel might be a good Notion Thief replacement given the fact that another cheap counter to protect Zur/Necropotence wouldn't hurt.

RIP/ Faerie macabre may be the way to go, as bad as those sound. I'm assuming it's the breakfast combo hulk. If it is, they need to get Lab man + a draw effect (unless they flash on upkeep) so Notion thief stops a lot of their thras/tymna digging and their ability to non-upkeep win.

I'm strongly considering getting rid of counterspell for dispel, too.

Yep, that's it. Good point about Notion Thief there. That deck is insanely fast, and takes dedicated hate. Dispel for Counterspell could definitely be a good swap, considering that half the stuff I want to counter will target Zur or a spell I'm going for. I think any of those changes will only help with cost and consistency.

RiP shuts down Yawg Will, but I can take that if it means killing the Hulk deck.