April 2016: Shadows over Innistrad
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Oct. 31, 2015, 6:42 p.m. by JWiley129
Announced during GP Indy, the Spring 2016 set is Shadows over Innistrad!
Edits for FAQ:
- Here is Mark Rosewater on why we're getting two returns in a row.
I understand that, and again I may be slightly pessimistic here and jumping the gun but two mana to crack an artifact to draw a card doesn't seem like a whole lot of value to me, especially when you have to work to obtain and use these clues. And now they're setting the stage for it to be more like "Oh, no, you don't just do this once per game... Clues... Clues EVERYWHERE!" -queue Buzz Lightyear meme-
Most of the work should be in defeating your opponent, not "unraveling the mystery" of your own deck. Card advantage is great. But not worth that much work.
2 mana draw 1? Sure. That's fine.4 mana draw 2? That's not terrible I guess.6 mana draw 3? I mean... no?8 mana draw 4.....
By the time you've put that much work into spending all that mana to draw some damn cards you could have already cast many far more interesting spells.
I'd also like to point out that Renowned Weaponsmith is rotating out in perfect time.
March 17, 2016 5:27 p.m.
I'm not sure Gisela and Bruna are in this set. As it stands, we have two mythics left to be revealed, and not a single mono green mythic. It just feels...off to me.
March 17, 2016 5:30 p.m.
TMBRLZ: Damn that's a shame about the weaponsmith. I'd love that synergy.
I get where you're coming from. I would go into detail about why installments of mana for an effect is much better than paying all at once, but I'll spare you since I believe you can garner that info yourself. I honestly think investigate is really clunky too. And I figured it was limited fodder only until I saw the recent green uncommon giving you another use for the things.
If there is a deck out there that can "accidentally" make 3 clues to pop on turn 6, you can do more than just draw three cards. You can draw three and place a creature from among them or otherwise onto the battlefield. At instant speed, no less. That's increasing your board presence AND gaining card advantage - and that's powerful.
Is it powerful enough? Honestly, it probably isn't. But it appears they're broadening the horizons with the investigate mechanic and I'm pretty excited to see where this goes!
March 17, 2016 5:37 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #7
Of the current mythics we have...
Black has 4 mythics, 2 mono-colored.
White and red both have 5 mythics, both have 2 mono-colored each.
Blue has 3 mythics, all mono-colored.
Green has 2 mythics, none mono-colored.
March 17, 2016 5:40 p.m.
Maybe...Gisela and Bruna team up with Nahiri in Eldritch Moon? And...then Tamiyo finally shows up to...learn...about...them?
I'm trying here .-.
March 17, 2016 5:46 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #9
So it seems like the most likely candidates are a mono-green mythic and either a colorless or 
mythic. The mythic would let every color have at least 4 mythics.
Or maybe 2 mono-green mythics. I don't know.
March 17, 2016 5:50 p.m.
Nightdragon779 says... #10
Well if they print a Sigarda and an Avacyn they better print Bruna and Gisela. By the way, if you look at their art, Gisela looks really damn corrupted and Bruna not as much. However, both do have bloodstained wings, marking them evil.
March 17, 2016 6:04 p.m.
Hey Vorthoses, is there a fundamental reason why Angels cannot become planeswalkers?
March 17, 2016 6:05 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #12
Since they're embodiments of white mana, they lack true souls. Planeswalker sparks only naturally appear in beings with souls.
March 17, 2016 6:07 p.m. Edited.
Spootyone I can't remember the specific answer to why but no angels cannot because they're beings of pure mana sired by their plane similar to how there can be no no innistrad vampire walkers or zombie walkers.
March 17, 2016 6:10 p.m.
EverythingIsK says... #15
@Spootyone To my understanding, Angels are mainly created by people, so since they are technically artificial, they can't possess a spark. MaRo answered this once before, I'll try to find the Q&A.
March 17, 2016 6:12 p.m.
Thanks reddi- er...Tappedout.
Alright then. My lovely "Sigarda has to fight off her sisters in EDM and her spark ignites" theory is out the window.
March 17, 2016 6:15 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #17
@Spootyone Angels could be planeswalkers, but they would have to have a spark artificially planted into them after they are created, similar to Karn Liberated. Angels are created rather than born, so they cannot naturally have a spark.
March 17, 2016 6:18 p.m.
elpokitolama says... #18
Guys, I think I've just made the most flavorful deck I've ever done: "As Zendikar has bled, so will Innistrad".
There's even a little place for the Eldrazi theory, even though I prefer thinking about Nahiri summoning Marit Lage. :p
March 17, 2016 6:32 p.m.
Rayenous, good call on your theory. I was thinking something along the lines of Merit Laege as well. I mean, if the tides are rising that would indicate either some type of Moon affecting the tides or so merging large enough to manipulate them in the area.
March 17, 2016 8:06 p.m. Edited.
capriom85 Rayenous That's an interesting theory. What type of card would it be though? It won't be Dark Depths as that is banned in Modern, but I guess it could be another land that transforms into Marit Lage. There are still some land cards to be spoiled I believe.
March 17, 2016 8:13 p.m.
Well, if they are in fact summoning Merit Laege, it doesn't need to be a land. In this case an enchantment may do, with some type of stipulations to meet and maybe the enchantment either flips or gives you a token.
If they are summoning, maybe it's a sorcery that will give a token. Personally, I can see a Merit type token coming as the second part of a board wipe. Maybe, "destroy all creatures, of x amount of creatures destroyed in this way put an x/x token out".
There are a lot of ways to do it but I'm not convinced the people of Innistrad would want to summon Merit specifically. Perhaps Thassa came to Innistrad, or Kiora is doing something dirty with their sea.
March 17, 2016 8:22 p.m.
Why does everyone want a recurring character? Innistrad is an important, popular, and successful enough plane that it seems like it should get its own Big Badguy Villain Monsterman That Threatens The Multiverse (TM)
March 17, 2016 8:35 p.m.
Hey Guys. Can we talk about Vessel of Volatility? I honestly have no clue how to evaluate it. Its obviously Good in storm, and a good Delirium Enabler, but what about in regular decks? can we afford to play it turn 3 and get a turn 4 Chandra, Flamecaller? that seems OP. In these Madness decks, getting a turn 3 Wolf could be game ending, etc.
What do you guys think?
March 17, 2016 8:40 p.m.
but...but the Vessel isn't good in Storm...it nets you 0 mana. Storm doesn't want that.
March 17, 2016 8:41 p.m.
It nets two if you let it sit a turn, which is a lot more than anything else still legal in modern :P
March 17, 2016 8:45 p.m.
JWiley129 I'm not terribly familiar with Storm (never played it, and never really seen it played effectively), but what are you typically doing T2 with the deck? Is it feasible that you're dropping Vessel a turn before you're looking to go off? (e.g. so you're paying the activation cost the turn you get the 
, but not the casting cost)
March 17, 2016 8:47 p.m.
It's fine if you cast it before you go off but in that case it's not netting you any storm count and the real problem is if you draw into it while trying to actually go off and you need a real ritual. Plus it doesn't work with Goblin Electromancer, Pyromancer Ascension or Past in Flames. Storm doesn't want that card.
March 17, 2016 8:53 p.m.
EverythingIsK says... #29
March 17, 2016 8:59 p.m.
Ok fine, But what about In standard? thats mainly why I was asking
March 17, 2016 9:06 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #31
GoldGhost012, do you know how, in movies with sentient robots, it is often a major plot point if they can truly be considered people, and if they have souls? Has that idea ever been prominent in the story of this game? That would make for an interesting story, in my mind. Also, to be frank, I see no good reason for WotC to have decided that being such as angels and demons, who are fully sentient, cannot be planeswalkers. Why and how did they make that decision?
March 17, 2016 9:10 p.m.
saj0219 - Storm has enough 2 drops: Goblin Electromancer, Pyromancer Ascension, Desperate Ritual, Desperate Ravings, Pyretic Ritual, and Manamorphose. A 2-mana enchantment that doesn't Fork my spells is worthless.
March 17, 2016 9:11 p.m.
ItchiUchiha117 says... #34
DemonDragonJ they made the decision because they are physical manifestations of pure mana and intent.
There was one "angelic" Planeswalker and that was Serra. The only demonic Planeswalker is Ob Nixilis and he became a demon (and subsequently lost his spark) after his spark ignited and he'd gone about and acquired The Chain Veil. Now that his spark has reignited, as Ob Nixilis Reignited shows us, he is regressing to a non-demonic form as you can see his chitin-like armor is actually going back to its actual state as the armor you can see him wearing on Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath. That seems to imply that the spark can not coexist with a demonic nature.
In the case of Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded, if I remember correctly, it was a ritual gone wrong that gave him his current half-devil nature and is caused by being fused with at least one (and I believe quite a few more than that) devils.
March 17, 2016 9:26 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #35
DemonDragonJ It isn't that Angels or Demons can't be Planeswalkers; they just can't naturally have a spark. Like said before, beings made of mana can't have sparks, as they are things that are created. Only things that are born can have a natural spark. That is just the way the mythos has been set; the proverbial "Word of God" is being used here.
And maybe angels/demons can have a spark. But very few beings on each plane have a spark, if any, and very few sparks ignite, if any, and very few survive the process (I would "if any", but we obviously have Sorin, Jace, etc. who did survive). It's unlikely that an angel/demon would be able to have a spark and survive, as those creatures are quite a bit rarer than boring old humans.
To be fair, we do have a Demon PW, but he was human beforehand, so maybe he doesn't count.
March 17, 2016 9:30 p.m.
So I'm thinking Siverfur Partisan + Zada, Hedron Grinder would be INSANE ...
March 17, 2016 9:34 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #37
ItchiUchiha117 Is this what they refer to as being "ninja'd bitch"?
And Tibalt does count. Devils=Demons. Check yo privilege.
All in good jest, of course.
March 17, 2016 9:36 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #38
ItchiUchiha117 Is this what they refer to as being "ninja'd bitch"?
And Tibalt doesn't count. Devils=/=Demons. Check yo privilege.
All in good jest, of course.
March 17, 2016 9:36 p.m.
With the latest new mythic spoiled being Black, I think that pretty much confirms 20 mythics in this set. There are still only two green mythics, both of which share another color. There are also now 5 black mythics, two of which are multi. There's white with 4 mythics (2 multi), and red with 4 mythics (3 multi). We still don't even have the anticipated Bruna and Gisela reprints. There must be more than 15 here.
March 17, 2016 9:45 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #40
ItchiUchiha117: Small thing, but Serra was actually a human.
DemonDragonJ: Like the others have said, this is a case of only natural-born creatures being able born with a planeswalker spark. Angels and demons are comparable to Karn, Silver Golem: while lacking a soul (due to being an artificial being), he was actually "gifted" a planeswalker spark that turned him into a planeswalker (karn liberated). In fact, Karn has been given another person's spark twice now.
So it may be possible that in the future we see an angelic/demonic planeswalker who wasn't created with a spark, but received another planeswalker's spark.
March 17, 2016 9:58 p.m. Edited.
Card: Behold the Beyond
Cost: 5
Rarity: M
Type: Sorcery
Text: Discard your hand. Search your library for three cards and put those cards into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Flavor: There is power in the abyss, in blackness more profound than the darkest dreams.
March 17, 2016 9:58 p.m.
Alright Jace. We're a bit tired of you. Time to give your spark to my gurl Sigarda, aight bud?
March 17, 2016 10 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #43
Oy, don't pick on Jace. Choose someone who doesn't really matter.
Tibalt, Kiora, and Narset can be volunteered.
March 17, 2016 10:07 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #44
Wow, that's the biggest Black D I've ever seen. The biggest, blackest D. That seems really fun.
March 17, 2016 10:07 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #45
I wanna play this lategame when I'm hellbent. Why yes, I'd love to tutor the three cards I need most.
March 17, 2016 10:08 p.m. Edited.
canterlotguardian says... #47
Spootyone do you have a link to the black mythic you mentioned? I'm not finding it anywhere.
Spootyone says... #1
TMBRLZ: I don't necessarily think it's as bad as you seem to perceive it is. Or at least, not with what has been given.
When WOTC makes a new set, it's usually thematic. Sometimes the theme is based around colors (devotion, clans, guids). Sometimes it's around a mechanic. If they don't base a good portion of a set around one or a few themes, it's hard to really break any walls of fundamental box of creativity they are confined in. We as magic players mostly want unique and powerful and "cool" cards, but there's only so much you can do without new themes and/or severe power creep.
Investigate is interesting. It works on several avenues, be it artifact manipulation, card draw, or specific clauses such as those on briarbridge patrol. I think it's a potentially great mechanic to endorse as much as it can be endorsed while we are still using it.
Interestingly enough, however, I really don't think it's as strongly backed yet is you might be feeling it is. We have INCREDIBLY strong tribal synergies and "lords" coming out of SOI right now. We also have interesting planeswalkers ready to find homes. And this is all with such a small portion of the set having been released.
I say we give it more time before we get too down on anything just yet. And if nothing else, it could be really fun in limited!
March 17, 2016 5:10 p.m.