Which Chandra is the best?
General forum
Posted on June 23, 2014, 9:05 p.m. by DX5
I like having a planeswalker in my deck and I play red and I'm wondering which Chandra is the best. I run a burn/aggro type mess so I'm trying to figure out whether Pyromaster or Firebrand is better. I'd like to know which you think is best?
JakeHarlow says... #3
Chandra, Pyromaster is generally the strongest...though Chandra Ablaze can be built around pretty well, too, and has some immensely powerful applications.
June 23, 2014 9:21 p.m.
Chandra, Pyromaster would be the best red walker. Most of them are lackluster and that one is probably the first one that actually functions decently and see competitive play (albeit sideboard only or 1-of).
June 23, 2014 9:53 p.m.
scopesightzx says... #6
I'd also recommend Koth of the Hammer . Being able to "make" a 4/4 creature (or ramp by an extra mana) each turn is good in an aggro build. His first minus can be a huge boost, and his ultimate can take over a game as soon as it activate.
June 23, 2014 10:20 p.m.
What about Koth of the Hammer ? Everyone always seems to forget he exists. He's actually a very strong midrange walker.
June 23, 2014 10:21 p.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #8
I would say that Chandra, Pyromaster is the best chandra but you might also think about Koth of the Hammer . I dont like him much but he can be ok so...
June 24, 2014 1:49 a.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #9
If Koth were in standard I'd play the shit out of him, but he's just too slow in modern. Mono red Skred decks are cute and fun, and usually run 4-of Koth, but that deck is not that great.
That said, Kibler recently wrote an article and mentioned the use of Chandra, Pyromaster over on SCG if that is of any interest. (in modern)
June 24, 2014 1:50 a.m.
Koth of the Hammer and Chandra, Pyromaster are similar in power level, but Pyromaster has more applications I think.
Pyromaster is probably the most playable Chandra, but Chandra Ablaze is undoubtedly the most powerful.
June 24, 2014 3:57 a.m.
But in a low-cmc deck like burn or aggro, Chandra, Pyromaster as a 1-of or 2-of will oftentimes do the trick.
June 24, 2014 3:58 a.m.
I do run tibalt. I've yet to figure out why people think he sucks. But yeah I will definitely try to get a copy of Pyromaster. I think she's pretty solid.
June 24, 2014 3:49 p.m.
@DX5: I believe it has something do with the word "random".
June 24, 2014 3:57 p.m.
If all your cards are good, it doesn't matter which one you have to get rid of. By the time I've got 2 mountains on the field I can play any card in my deck, so it doesn't really matter which card I lose.
June 24, 2014 4:10 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #16
If it doesn't matter which card you loose, then he is a sorcery that reads "put a card from your library into the graveyard, gain 3 life" and paying 2, spending a card, and milling 1 to gain 3 life isn't worth it.
June 24, 2014 5:02 p.m.
He "absorbs" 3 damage for you. Diverts attention, gets attacked, earns extra time, etc. instead of getting a bolt to the face, Tibalt can get the bolt. Essentially 3 life loss prevented.
June 24, 2014 5:09 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #19
He absorbs the Lightning Bolt
that your opponent would send to your face or makes them attack him with 3 power instead of you, either way he is 2 mana that is going to die the very next turn and all he did was prevent that 3 damage to you.
His Ultimate is all fine and dandy but Planeswalkers should never be judged on their ultimate as you either have to have board control or a brain dead opponent to get there. If you have complete board control Young Pyromancer
is 2 power that makes you an army of tokens in a burn deck and will most likely win the game before turn 6 which is when Tibalt's ult could be used.
June 24, 2014 5:15 p.m.
Even then Tibalt is still better than Koth and any Chandra because the quickest you can get them out is turn 4. Granted they can't get killed by a lightning bolt alone. I still can't see why Tibalt is bad though I can see how he gets killed easy. I've never had a problem with him getting killed though because I've mostly played people with slow decks.
June 24, 2014 5:25 p.m.
I stopped reading here:
"Even then Tibalt is still better than Koth "
June 24, 2014 5:39 p.m.
Lol at least for my deck. His -2 is useless for me and his ultimate is pretty good but not as good as tibalts ultimate (which would take less time to get). His +1 is pretty good though. I think Tibalt is better at least for a burn/aggro deck.
June 24, 2014 5:45 p.m.
Tibalt is arguably decent for a burn deck, but then almost every burn spell is better for a burn deck than Tibalt.
Even then, I'd still rather have Chandra, Pyromaster in my deck.
June 24, 2014 5:48 p.m.
I run two planeswalkers so I'd have Chandra, Pyromaster and Tibalt at the same time.
Red Deck that's what my deck looks like. I still think Tibalt is really underrated and gets a lot of hate that he doesn't deserve. I'd drop any Chandra or Koth before I dropped Tibalt.
June 24, 2014 5:51 p.m.
scopesightzx says... #25
If Tibalt is better, why is he the cheapest planeswalker?
June 25, 2014 10:18 p.m.
Why is Chain Lightning $10 and Lightning Bolt $1-$2 when Lightning Bolt is better?
June 26, 2014 2:29 p.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #27
Chain Lightning has been printed significantly less.
June 26, 2014 2:32 p.m.
Simple: Chain Lightning has 2 printings and is a staple. Lightning Bolt has 13 printings and is a staple.
In fact, you can take the price of Chain Lightning and divide it by a factor of 13/2 and get the price of Lightning Bolt .
???
June 26, 2014 2:32 p.m.
How good a card is doesn't determine price. The point isn't why it's $10 it's that it's not because it's better. I hope you all understand that.
June 26, 2014 2:34 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #30
Because #1 chain lightning is better and #2 collector's value. Chain lightning can only be copied by people who are also pretty heavily in red although the decks that run it are going to be the farthest into red. When the spell is copied, the clause allowing the player or creature's controller to copy it is also copied. So even if you Chain Lightning them and they copy it back at you, you can then copy it back at them.
June 26, 2014 2:35 p.m.
It plays at Sorcery speed and odds are you won't get the chance to copy it back. It's not all that great especially when Red usually doesn't have all that much mana anyway.
June 26, 2014 2:37 p.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #32
Chain Lightning almost 100% of the time sees play in Legacy burn decks as a 4-of, because sorcery speed Lightning Bolt (which is almost always what this is) is still great. The price is entirely determined by the disparity between supply and demand.
June 26, 2014 2:39 p.m.
I'm not saying it's bad or anything. I think it's good and would definitely run it in any format where it was legal, but there's no way it's better than Lightning Bolt.
June 26, 2014 2:42 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #34
I, umm, uhh, really dude? You are not trolling and legitimately think these things? Like this isn't going to be some big joke and you are going to all of a sudden pop up a format warping legacy deck because you are just trolling. You legitimately think Tibalt isn't awful and Lightning Bolt is better than Chain Lightning ?
June 26, 2014 2:43 p.m.
"How good a card is doesn't determine price. I hope you all understand that."
You should really stop talking like you know a lot more than everyone else here. In another thread, you told you're "a noob" (in your own words) and the only Magic you play is at school.
In fact, when was the last time someone here agreed with you on anything during a debate? Meditate on that for a bit.
And, yes; a card being good or not is the biggest factor in determining its price. If this weren't the case, you wouldn't see Standard cards fluctuating in price throughout the season. Courser of Kruphix is nuts, so its price is now $17. Into the Wilds is not nuts, so it's 50 cents.
Other things that factor into a card's price is its rarity, collectors' value, and a few even smaller thing.
June 26, 2014 2:43 p.m.
Lightning Bolt is certainly better than Chain Lightning. The majority of the time you're going to use Chain Lightning it's not going to get copied. That's not even to mention that the only time you can play it is during either of your own Main Phases.
I play Magic at school, but also at my local card shop. I haven't played in an FNM, but I have played everyone who plays in the Modern tournament at our FNM.
I don't know much about any color but red. But just by looking over them, the Centaur is obviously better because he is a Centaur.
I've never claimed to know what I'm doing with any of the other four colors, but red I'm pretty well versed in because it's incredibly easy to play.
Also I'm pretty sure Black Lotus isn't as good as Blacker Lotus , but as you can see, Black Lotus is much more expensive than its blacker cousin.
June 26, 2014 2:57 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #38
But actually though, isn't Lightning Bolt better? Chain Lightning is sorcery speed, they can throw it back at you or your creatures, and you can throw it back extremely inefficiently. I'm not getting the hate on DX5 here for thinking that.
On a side note, Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded is mega-trash and DX5 you're wrong.
June 26, 2014 3:52 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #39
Lightning Bolt
advantages: instant speed
Chain Lightning
advantages: allows you to get in a red mana war to do additional damage without spending more cards in an archetype that is commonly hellbent.
Neither is "strictly better'' so I guess it comes down to an opinion. I personally like the possibility of the extra damage than the instant speed. What makes Chain Lightning
good is much the same reason that Sulfuric Vortex
is good. Even though Sulfuric Vortex
technically does damage symmetrically, your opponent gets dealt the damage first and quick games with lots of early damage favor aggressive decks. Chain Lightning
will often be a bolt plus symmetrical damage so it is good.
June 26, 2014 4:27 p.m.
The speed of a burn spell doesn't really matter in a burn deck. Sure, one could argue that an instant will always be better than a sorcery, but most/all of the burn is going to the dome anyways.
June 26, 2014 4:41 p.m.
At most you're only going to get to play Chain Lightning twice because who is gonna have 4 mana left after playing chain lightning in a red deck that's supposed to win by turn 5? Especially when you could have lightning bolt or even Lava Spike in your hand.
June 26, 2014 6:11 p.m.
Okay. Stop trolling. Come on.
You either need to give it up because you aren't going to make any friends by (a) trolling, or (b) declaring time-tested and proven cards as bad and miserable failures of cards as good, and then saying that you know better because you've played your friends at school with a casual Red deck for a few months.
You don't know, you don't know, you don't know.
Quit putting words in the mouths of people speaking truth.
/you
June 26, 2014 6:14 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #44
lol. This is awesome.
I kind of have to agree with the consensus as far as the OP is concerned. If you want to rate them in my humble opinion it would be;
I only rate the firebrand low because you're either casting her later than turn 4 when you can actually copy something with her ability, or you're throwing one damage at something and fogging your opponent for a turn as they are forced to deal with her. That being said I have used her to copy Cruel Ultimatum ...but I've also used Chandra Ablaze to cast it out of the graveyard, and I find her much more powerful all around.
June 26, 2014 6:35 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #45
Reading this thread is kind of like reading Slaughterhouse Five (sort of, okay, not at all, but that's beside the point). I'm pretty sure DX5 is insane, either that or he's that guy that firmly believes Tolkien ripped off JK Rowlings from that infamous IMDB post a few years back.
They're taking the hobbits to ISENGARD!
Allons-y.
June 26, 2014 7:28 p.m.
I definitely agree with your ratings of the Chandras. Unfortunately, I only one the worst two XD. I probably would never run Chandra Ablaze due to her being so expensive, but I'm definitely saving for a copy of Pyromaster.
I also don't know why that other guy ignores the fact that I've played plenty of people at my local card shop. Granted, they are still in the same league as my friends at school, who are very solid players, but they are somewhat older. What's the difference between late teens and early twenties though...
I don't know why people are determined to convince me Tibalt is bad. I guess it's cause I said:
"I've yet to figure out why people think he sucks."
I still don't see it. He hasn't had a negative impact on a single game I've played with him in my deck (which is all of them).
I don't mind though. Until he starts to suck for me, he stays in my deck. At worst, he's cool artwork as long as you don't have the Duel Deck art.
But more to the point, one of the main reasons I think being an instant is a huge advantage over being a sorcery is that Lightning Bolt can take care of something like Crested Craghorn before it kills your Grim Lavamancer where as Chain Lightning cannot
June 26, 2014 7:59 p.m.
HAHAHAHA HAHAHAH HAHA! This thread made me laugh so hard! :D
First! Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded is not great. It is actually pretty bad. There is ALLWAYS one card, that you would rather have than another. Therefore, the "Random" discard is so bad. If it wasn't "Random", it could have seen some play in some Mono-red decks.....
Then, Lightning Bolt is so much better than Chain Lightning . Let me explain why!
Lightning Bolt is an Instant. Yes. This means A LOT! It means, that you can play it at your opponents end step. You can wait and see, if the opponent is playing a pesky little creature that you NEEDS to kill....
Second of all..... Chain Lightning has this thing; "Then that players controller MAY pay RR". Yes. There is a MAY! This means, that the opponent can choose wether or not to copy it. Let me give you an example....
You have a Goblin Guide on the battlefield, and 3 Mountain s untapped, and your opponent have 2 Mountain s untapped.
You play this. Now the oppenent has the choice to copy it or not. He can then pay the 2 mana, and kill your Goblin Guide , which would have dealt AT LEAST 4 dmg to him. He then takes 3 to the face, but it was worth it for him. Lightning Bolt would have been better.... Even Lava Spike would have been betterf for you...
To give the opponents options is allways bad. Therefore Lava Spike is better than Chain Lightning .
It is VERY rare, that you and your opponent have 2 Red mana open. So it actually only really comes down to Instant or Sorcery. And therefore Lightning Bolt wins.....
The reason it is so expensive is, that there is really not that many Chain Lightning .
June 28, 2014 5:45 p.m.
Oh, and sorry of necroing.... I just felt this had to be said....
JWiley129 says... #2
I mean...Chandra, Pyromaster is the best Chandra in a vacuum. For burn/aggro Chandra, Pyromaster draws you more burn and can blank some blocks that otherwise would be catastrophic for you. Also if you get to her ultimate you can get 3 copies of your favorite burn spell.
June 23, 2014 9:13 p.m.