EDH and the Social Contract? Really?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on July 31, 2011, 6:56 p.m. by PRSDGT
So, as a fairly new EDH player, I decided to stretch out a bit and try a new league. Hoping for some variety and a new play experience, I had high hopes. Unfortunately, what occurred was miserable, confusing, and lackluster bashings heaped on me from every player.
Here's the background: I was playing my Oona build, called Death by Oona (check it out if you'd like). Total group of strangers, they invite me to play and I oblige. There's two faux-group hug decks, and a mono-black Skittles build.
The game begins with some introductions, at which point the players start to insult my hometown...and our EDH players. Everything is rolling along by turn 7-9, I'm building up mana base, haven't played any threats, no counters, etc. Then, out of nowhere, the Phelddagrif player casts Winter Orb and Frozen AEther . We're shut down with the stasis-lock for 10 turns until I have enough mana open to cast Vampiric Tutor into card:Nevinyrral's Disk. In unison, with the Phelddagrif player being the loudest, the three other guys begin complaining about how un-fun the disk is and how rude I was to play it.
The end result: The other group hug player destroys my N-Disk, then the Skittles player destroys my lands.
Am I missing something here?! I mean, I'm all for a good lock now and then...but to punish somebody for trying to move a 1.5 hr long game along?
Game Two: I get hated off the table by a Doran combo on turn 6 (with no creatures, artifacts, enchantments, etc. on my board...just mana). Why? The Doran player said he was worried I "might be running a counterspell at some point."
For all the talk about not being a DB or playing DB cards, this format seems to speak out of both sides of its mouth.
What am I doing wrong? Because if it's playing UB over G/W/R, I don't see how hating out a given color contributes to the casual or social interactivity of a game where variety, personality, and spontaneous players breath life into the gaming experience.
Maybe I don't understand commander as a format, but card:Nevinyrral's Disk seems like a perfectly reasonable card. Sure it's good, but it's not "Broken" good, especially in such an open format. You still have to draw it/tutor for it, it etb's tapped, so other players have time to respond, etc. etc.
Disk CERTAINLY doesn't seem anymore unfair than Winter Orb or Frozen AEther . I don't think you should feel bad for playing the card. It more sounds like you were just an outsider and this group was a bunch of jerks.
I agree with Epochalyptik. I don't play casual formats very often, but I do understand that the point of casual format is to have fun. If you aren't having fun, you shouldn't feel obligated to stick around. Use this test: having fun? If no, leave! Try to be gracious about it, but leave!
July 31, 2011 7:19 p.m.
patriots12_08m says... #4
I know exactly what you are talking about. There are 2 types of EDH players out there, the ones you met, and the ones that play to have fun. I refuse to ever blow up lands in EDH and I also refuse to play any infinite combos even if I don't tutor to get them.
My point is don't let a few asses stop you from playing a wonderful format of magic. If I'm in a game and someone does what you were talking about all I do is say congrats you won an EDH game pick up my cards in the middle of play and find another game.
I hope you find a good group of people to play with. EDH can be a really fun format.
July 31, 2011 7:29 p.m.
Both of y'all brought up something that I guess I need to embrace...leaving the game if your not having any fun.
I suppose I've just resisted doing that because I've not wanted to insult the player for putting down the stasis-lock or playing Blood Moon when they know I'm playing a 5cc Cromat build with only 5 basics.
Instead, I end up quiet and miserable. I'll put the challenge to myself to take a stand for enjoyment!
Oh, and @ kabrazell: yes, the N-Disk is USUALLY a perfectly reasonable card to play in the format, as there are so many times where the board states are so unbalanced. It not only speeds things up for the most part, but offers a bit of equilibrium to a table.
Thanks for the input so far! It definitely helps :)
July 31, 2011 7:33 p.m.
AegairEtapa says... #6
I've heard something about 'blue player may be playing counterspells so attack them first.' argument. But that's usually because blue can pull off some douchier moves. Considering what happened game on.. Yeah.. They were just being douches.
August 1, 2011 6:36 a.m.
The best part is when they turn to the blue player expecting a counterspell for the Genesis Wave someone just cast, after spending all game beating on him for having counterspells.
The people you played with are d-bags. It happens sometimes.
August 1, 2011 3:33 p.m.
Luckily, not all Commander players are such jerks.
My last game was with 3 other players and i was playing my Modified Political Puppets-Deck and soon had Meekstone and Reverence out, followed by Zedruu the Greathearted and card:Puca's Mischief. Taking into account a few creatures and other enchantments i was a mos unfavourable target. this was the moment the politics (and a lot of fun) started.
For example i offered to one player to Oblivion Ring the greatest threat to him if he attacks a certain player.
It went on like this for a long time and it really was a lot of fun with a lot of player bribery going on.
In the end i even won (to my own surprise, being the noob in the round).
So i guess you just ran into a few jerks who need a go at people now and then because they don't get much love ;)
August 3, 2011 7:23 p.m.
Well, it's like the guys at mtgcommander.net said: If you find yourself playing with people who are overtly rude, taking it too seriously or not allowing everyone at the table to have fun equally, then hey, there are plenty of the rest of us to play with. Don't sweat it too much.
August 4, 2011 8:24 a.m.
DeckBuilder345 says... #10
Just to play some devils advocate here....(not cuz i think anyone who has posted so far is wrong but just want to toss out another possibility for a different prespective)
The guys you played with obviously all play w/ each other fairly regularly. You do not however and don't necessarily know what they accept as fun or not fun in a given deck. I agree that your play seemed reasonable to me, and would have welcomed your disk had i been at the table... but maybe in that play group board wipers are considered extremely anti fun.
Obviously it would have been good of them to tell you this before you sat down to play w/ them... and they shouldn't have been jerks about it in the second game, but it could be the things you consider anti fun and they consider anti fun aren't necessarily the same.
Their commentary at the table might have been their way of trying to tell you of the social contract they have usually played by at their table. Thus if you are interested in continued w/ that play group, a nice discussion about what the "house rules" are might be in order. Which could likely lead to a more enjoyable experience for all.
Just a thought. I wanted to offer a some what different perspective on your exprience.
August 5, 2011 10:43 p.m.
...signed...to a degree
Still, starting a game with insults is extremely anti-fun and i think that's not part of any house rules. Although you're playing to have fun your second goal most often is to win the game.
This often requires Board Wipers (i have Day of Judgment , Wrath of God and Armageddon in my Zedruu Deck) and even these can be fun since they utterly change the game state (Armageddon + Ward of Bones ...think about it).
I also refuse to include totally un-fun combos like Spell Crumple + Tunnel Vision .
If a player cannot take the fact that his strategy has been turned upside down, he should reconsider his strategy/deck...and possibly rethink the reasons why he's playing Commander.
August 6, 2011 3:28 a.m.
theemptyquiver says... #12
hahahahah @ Spell Crumple and Tunnel Vision .
that is wicked.
August 6, 2011 6:04 a.m.
deadmanwalking says... #13
I'm very sorry to hear you had such a bad experience your first time playing EDH. As the above comments have already said, it really depends on who you are playing with. For example, the "group hug" player who decided to lockdown the board, wasn't playing a very convincing "group hug" deck, if you ask me. The idea there is to either keep everyone in the game as long as possible (not by keeping people from playing, though) or to pick one other player, and make them win the game. The guy who played it probably would completely disagree.
That being said, I can see why they did what they did. Don't get me wrong, I disagree with it completely, but I see why they got so mad at the disk. Playing any sort of nuke or board wipe is, in my opinion, usually a huge faux paux in EDH. As I'm sure you know, the idea is that the game is a gentleman's agreement. You "declare war" on another player in a civil, fair way, when they can defend themselves, not when their pants are down. Given that, any card that blows up the game should really not be played ever. It makes everyone scramble to get their commander back out an just punch each other till someone takes 21 damage. Everyone has them but they're seldom ever played. It's very odd. Now when the game is at a standstill, I think that warrants a fresh start. The thing I find the most ridiculous about that story is that they destroyed the disk. If someone had the cards to do that, why didn't he shatter Winter Orb ?
It's like this: in a Zedruu deck, you have you card:Thieves' Auction in hand. You could screw every other player at once, and then coup de grace with Brand , but you don't, because that's "not fair". If every other player decides to throw their commander at you in rapid succession, then you have fair reason to do so.
It's like if you have Experiment Kraj and and his full entourage out. He's got Spearbreaker Behemoth , and for good measure, you drop your Spincrusher . You pump Kraj up to 14/16, and then you draw your card:Jodah's Avenger. You've got all the pieces, it'll only take as many turns as there are players, but do you do it? Not always. Sometimes you don't drop it, just to see how thing play out. Or maybe the guy playing zedruu passed you a Wall of Frost that's been helping you out some, there are all sorts of factors that don't come up in a normal game.
Basically what I'm saying is that EDH is a different format, with different rules and a different mentality.
But what of the guy playing Doran in the second game? Oh, he's just a jerk. We all have them in our playgroups, the guy who says things like "well I don't care about winning, but I think you might if I don't kill you now". I won't even try to defend him. He can suck it.
In conclusion, I hope there is something you can take from the above wall of text, but in this case, the first thing said summed it up best:
"you're just playing with asses", -Epochalyptik
August 8, 2011 6:55 a.m.
Nethermind says... #14
Utter dicks tbh. it comes with the hobby that you will have assholes with all the social grace of a tampon, but EDH is meant to be a more social, less competitive game type, so don't let them put you off. wrath spells are a major part of the format, so no idea what they were talking about. Next time blow up their lands and laugh heartily.
August 11, 2011 4:39 p.m.
ExiledSenpai says... #15
Disk isn't fun because it resets the game. If they wanted to play another game, they would scoop it up and do so. You should have hit the orb with a return to dust, shattering spree, krosan grip, cryptic command, shattering pulse, etc. Disk is also bad because it gives everyone a turn to respond, which is precisely what happened to you.
Additionally, the fact that you didn't play any threats by turn 7-9 is precisely the problem. What's the point in playing against you if you don't do anything. Besides, if you're not doing anything of course people are going to be afraid that you're a very reactive deck, so of course they're going to be afraid of counter magic. Not doing anything is also an indication that your deck is bad, and maybe they want to play against people who are a challenge, or at the very least put up a fight; it's not fun winning every time.
And honestly, I just looked at two of your decklists, they scream bad player. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING, but maybe those guys were right, maybe you've been stuck playing with bad players, which makes it very hard to get better. The only way to get better is to play people who are better than you and get utterly destroyed by them(I should know), so why not play at that store more? Show them your deck and ask them for their thoughts, I'm sure they would be happy to oblige.
In conclusion: play something by turn 3 and run better board wipes, ones that don't kill absolutely everything in play.
November 28, 2011 1:35 a.m.
agree with pretty much every comment already posted here in some way or another. i think that the blue player is the most adngerous late game because they have probs been waiting to get ther win combo out or to lock everyone down with erayo or something i have a mono blue deck EDH deck and Uril, the Miststalker EDH deck the yare both proper dick moves so i dont play them hardly ever becuase they just arent fun for anyone involved but we all run lots of board wipes in our group otherwise you just cant find them when you need one specially without black! they were complete tools for making you feel unwelcome and hating on you. i will say though dont play blue if you dont wana be hated on! lol. but seriously i think the in house rules are most important here. i changed a whole deck from being counter control to just having some echantments in play and a few bounce spells where needed because it was crap for everyone. my mate barely pulls out his kraaj deck for the same reason. i have things a little differently because i have all my mates round to play at mine on my huuuuge dining table but i think if i think it would be a dick move to play against i dont play it. but this case was completely rediculous tbh mate you were dead right i would have dropped kicked the guys face! lol
Epochalyptik says... #2
This may be blunt, but you're just playing with asses. I have played EDH games with both casual players and the serious/DB groups, and it's become very clear which group is preferable. Every now and then, you'll run into the latter, and you can either tough it out or just scoop and find another bunch. The idea is to have fun, not suffer through a 3-hour gridlocked Topping match while you get hated out by every player in succession.
If you move on and they call you a poor sport, just remind them why you left and leave it at that. People tend to forget that the point of this game in its entirety was to enjoy yourself, whether in the company of friends or just fellow players.
July 31, 2011 7:04 p.m.