Isn't B/G dredge coming back?
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 17, 2015, 9:59 a.m. by bananamaniaman
So a bit ago I found an article, and a part of that article was about how dredge was going to make a huge comeback after the recent banning.
But I haven't really seen it being mentioned a ton anywhere.
Is it just because you can just splash white, throw in a playset of rhinos, and BOOM you have an infinitely better abzan deck? here is the link that article. Just scroll down to the part that says DREDGE, VALUE EDITION, and read through the rest of the article.
bananamaniaman says... #3
Forgot to mention: I know that this is article is a little old, from before the PT FRF, and is about the kind of decks this person would like to see, but the format has not changed at all and what he is talking about is still food for thought.
February 17, 2015 10:03 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #5
Well, there are some Vengevine decks that are tier 2, but it won't be a big thing in the competitive scene. Golgari Grave-Troll was just a card thrown into Modern's ban list from it's inception, and it was finally time to remove it since it would have no real effect on Modern whether it was banned or not.
February 17, 2015 10:09 a.m.
I want it to come back. It is a very strong deck IMO and has a somewhat unique gameplan. Jund Vengevine is incredibly fun to play.
February 17, 2015 10:41 a.m.
Scavenging Ooze is at least somewhat prevalent right now. Dredge will never be a big thing. It's just super easy to completely shut down.
February 17, 2015 11:07 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #8
Why dredge at all when you can play living end, a deck with relatively the same gameplan but with the ability to cast it's beaters from hand if it must. I would check that out if you were interested. The deck is fairly cheap too so that's a plus
February 17, 2015 11:23 a.m.
Until you get 4 fulminator mages and the abudance of fetches the deck should play to be competitive, making fetch quite a pretty penny. It is not in the BGx control levels where tarmogoyf and liliana cost more than the rest of the deck, but it can get expensive.
Anyways, Vengevine can go through graveyard hate by just being a midrange aggro deck. Vengevine can actually cost 4 mana and be a triggerless Hellrider, which is not bad at all.
If Scooze is indeed the most powerful option in Modern for graveyard control, I have 3 Ground Seal ready to SB. Plus, the deck can get through the first couple of Relic of Progenitus via a simple Faithless Looting.
February 17, 2015 11:31 a.m.
Ground Seal meet Abrupt Decay. Abrupt Decay, meet Ground Seal. Besides, if you want to waste tempo doing that then fine. Even if the deck ever does get prevalent enough Rest in Peace completely and utterly shuts it down.
And no a 4 mana 4/3 isn't 'not bad at all'. It's bad. The deck is flimsy and does midrange so much worse than a proper midrange deck does. Paying 4 mana for a creature that's within Lightning Bolt range? Lol. There are decks running around the meta with 1 mana 4/5s. There is no place for a midrange deck that casts 4 mana 4/3s.
February 17, 2015 12:05 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #11
Well, I mean, the goal is to have infinite Vengevines. Which you can do. Pretty easily, in fact, if you can get it going.
Also, you don't cast them. Still, I see your point.
February 17, 2015 12:11 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #13
Meh. Less common now that no one uses their yards. Dredgevine will be the kind of deck that takes advantage of a hole in the metagame (kinda like Affinity).
February 17, 2015 12:50 p.m.
bananamaniaman says... #15
First, I was never really interested in this deck, I was just curious about it.
Second, so your saying that it is not viable because there are so many one of's and two of's that completely shut these kind of decks out.
February 17, 2015 1:09 p.m.
One of the most popular decks in the meta mainboards Scavenging Ooze which does a decent job disrupting it. Sideboard options that make life difficult are fairly commonplace whether they are Grafdigger's Cage or Relic of Progenitus or Rest in Peace.
It's a deck that does well when no ones expecting it, but as soon as it becomes popular everyone can start main boarding cards that completely counter it. Making it a popular tier 2 but never tier 1.
February 17, 2015 1:16 p.m.
The problem with dredgevine is that graveyard hate is so good right now. Scavenging ooze doesn't really shut the deck down, but it does hinder it, you can put more things in your graveyard than it can take out, but it can sure make a dent in it. Look at how dredgevine decks did pretty well when everyone was play DRS. I believe a pro said that the matchups actually got worse after DRS got banned because people started playing real graveyard hate instead. I believe the deck is totally viable for FNM level play, and is actually a really fun deck to play.
February 17, 2015 2:18 p.m.
Dredge could be good with Tasigur not as the main straregy of a Sultan build maybe. It could be a midrange deck with dredge being the part that gives the card advantage that gives the deck it's edge.
February 17, 2015 2:37 p.m.
Scavenging ooze only needs to remove vengevine and the rest of the deck is chaff.
February 17, 2015 2:58 p.m.
When a deck with 4 Gurmag Angler main can make it to the top spots of the PT, through all the graveyard hate, then why not zoidberg, i mean dredgevine? There isn't a single deck in modern that cannot be hated out with a couple of sideboard cards, in fact sideboarding has become the most vital part of modern.
Wading through that hate is dredgevine. In the albeit few games I have played with the deck, vengevine has always been the least impactful card. Lotleth Troll has a had a much greater impact on the game and is often the finisher of choice because of regenerate.
The deck has many moving parts and is not reliant on a single card or a single zone.
February 17, 2015 3:43 p.m.
Because the pro tour was 10% burn, and because no one had any idea what that deck was doing. Now that we do it's an easier case. Of course a completely rogue deck is going to do well every now and again - because it surprises people, Andy hat counts for a ton. Unfortunately once people become accustomed they make the necessary adjustments to shut it down.
The thing about the most common decks at the moment is that they're remarkable hard to shut down.burn doesn't even lose to life gain because Skullcrack. Twin doesn't has counter spells and many versions play goyf so it can survive it's combo falling apart. Abzan doesn't depend on any single card or strategy at all. Dredge is different because without the graveyard it becomes a really, really inefficient midrange deck.
February 17, 2015 3:52 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #22
The biggest problem with dredgevine decks, as somebody who has spent a LOT of time trying to make them work, is that you're playing 12-16 good magic cards, and 24 cards that are TERRIBLE, in order to make the good cards "work." So why would you play those cards over things that are just objectively better, like Rhino or Tarmogoyf? And, when you play rhino, you don't have to run cards like Stinkweed Imp or Golgari Thug.
February 17, 2015 4:06 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #23
Dredge takes a long time to set up, and it's slow to reanimate.
When decks like Living End can have a good board state on T2, you really need to make sure you're making good plays.
February 18, 2015 2:08 a.m.
I've played and tested Jund dredgvine a lot... it's a really fun deck to play, but since you play cards from your graveyard mostly you just get wrecked by graveyard hate. Then it becomes a worse Jund, when you could be playing a fair jund. It's always been a pet deck of mine, bring it out once in awhile for fun. I'll stick with twin to win.
GlistenerAgent says... #2
Gavin Verhey wants you to try the stuff Wizards unbans, because as one of their employees he (is supposed to) support all the things they do. He knows relatively little about the competitive metagame as compared to professional players, none of whom have said Dredge will be a thing.
There are infinitely many more powerful things you can do.
February 17, 2015 10:01 a.m.