First, thank you for sharing that deck, I love the epic spells and I was searching for a way to play them easily ^_^

That being said, I may be mistaken, but I feel there is a problem with playing more than one epic spell with that combo.

I'll explain my reasoning: - Epic experimentation or Hellcarver Demon allow to play any epic spell without paying their mana cost, but it states nothing about casting them all at once in the stack. (a little like Narset ability) - the epic spells are all sorceries, which means that except explicitely stated otherwise, they can only be casted when the stack is empty (307.1 of Comprehensive Rules) ; so the first epic spell can be casted, but you can't cast the second one before the first one resolve ; but then you are forbidden to cast any more spell.

However, I think it is still possible to "play" more than one epic spell with little adjustments:

1. copying the spell (copied spell is not casted, as stated in 706.10) with an ability or an instant (that can be placed in the stack after the epic spell, so resolved before). This only allows to have multiple instances of the same epic spell (so effects stack), but not instances of different epic spells.

2. giving Flash to my sorceries, which would allow me to cast them at any time I can play an instant (702.8a), so even before another sorcery is resolved in the stack. For example by casting Leyline of anticipation, Vedalken Orrery or Alchemist's Refuge second ability. I think this would allow to cast all the epic spells before the first one is resolved, allowing to have instances of different epic spells.

Am I wrong?

Thank you again for the hard work, you found a great combo with commander, 1 creature and the Proteus staff! :)

lotte3331: those two cards’ abilities allow you to cast them as part of the resolution of the trigger or the spell. So for instance, Hellcarver Demon would trigger, and when the trigger resolves, you sac all other permanents, discard your hand, exile the top 6 of your library, and then choose to cast any of them right away. Those spells then resolve after all of this happens because they were cast as part of the Demon’s triggered ability. Epic Experiment is the same way except it’s a spell and not a trigger.

lotte3331 we've put very extensive research into this deck and we are 100% confident that we have done it correctly to account for any rules technicalities. TheGeneralAdvisor is correct, but I will try to provide additional clarity.

Hellcarver Demon's ability will trigger during the Combat Damage Step (once damage is dealt), and as a result of the wording on the card, "cast any number of nonland cards exiled this way without paying their mana costs," you actually cast the spells as part of the triggered ability's effects (still during the Combat Damage Step). This allows you to ignore any timing restrictions because you can't normally cast any spells during the Combat Damage Step. As the trigger resolves, you choose which spells go on the stack, and their order on the stack. The "Epic" ability (making you unable to cast spells for the rest of the game) does not take effect until an Epic spell has resolved, and since all of the Epic spells have already been cast before we get restricted by the "Epic" ability, all the spells will resolve normally during the Combat Damage Step.

This is different from Narset, Enlightened Master because he has different wording on his ability. The "Until end of turn" clause forces you to obey timing restrictions. Unlike Hellcarver Demon, Narset, Enlightened Master does not place any spells on the stack as the attack trigger resolves. Instead, the spells are put into exile as the ability resolves and you may choose to cast any of them later in your turn for free (while obeying timing restrictions).

Here are some links for rulings on relevant cards:

Narset, Enlightened Master: https://www.mtgassist.com/cards/Khans-of-Tarkir/Narset-Enlightened-Master/rulings/

Hellcarver Demon: https://www.mtgassist.com/cards/Rise-of-the-Eldrazi/Hellcarver-Demon/rulings/

Epic Ability (Enduring Ideal): http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=enduring%20ideal

mmlgamer and AgentJackjohn sorry for the late response, must have completely missed your comments when you posted them... we actually already made the swtich when the set came out, we just never updated our TappedOut decklist.

Najeela, the Blade-Blossom is not only easier to cast in every situation, but if we can get an early attack without killing her then the warrior token is an excellent target for Proteus Staff later in the game when we start our combo.

She also makes our combo much easier to assemble since we previously needed at least 5 mana to combo because casting General Tazri was basically a necessity, whereas now we are capable of the combo with only 3 mana (we will still want more than 3 mana, but needing 2 less mana for a combo piece can give us our combo up to 2 turns earlier).

Hive Mind would make the combo even more crazy

Also, would najeela be a better commander just because she is less mana?

So my biggest question is why General Tazri as commander, couldn't you use Golos, Tireless Pilgrim and assuming you had 14 mana to go off with you could use his activated ability twice in a turn and then play all 5 epics after using proteus staff to rearrange the deck, yeah it costs 4 more mana than Epic Experiment but it does preserve your boardstate and hand as well as if you have a way to make infinite mana or a lot of mana then you could essentially put a bunch of sorcery copiers into the deck and then go off but in the specific order of all your copiers first then drop all the copies of your epics and have some really epic fun.

Chickens_are_awesome Yep! As Toothless said earlier, we made the switch we just hadn't updated the list. Thanks for reminding us. It's all fixed up now.

Treighnof Thanks for the suggestion. Sadly Golos, Tireless Pilgrim has the same problem as a lot of other ways to cast these spells, in that you have to obey timing restrictions with his ability. This means we can resolve no more than 1 spell. Works the same as Narset. And while Golos is good, having a 3 drop commander that makes tokens is just too good to give up.

what do you mean when you say "ManLands make excellent alternate targets for the staff so that the demon doesn't become summoning sick."?

ihazpie it is because when proteus staff is used on the demon he will re-enter the battlefield, thus giving him summoning sickness (if he didn't have it already). In situations where he does not have summoning sickness already, you can activate and target a man-land to reveal then stack your entire deck in an order of your choosing before proceeding directly to combat with Hellcarver Demon

oh okay, thanks for the explanation

Increasing Vengeance is a straight upgrade on Reverberate.

I absolutely love the concept of this deck! Another more modern commander could be Esika, God of the Tree  ^Flip to act as a Proteus Staff in the command zone, which might work for the deck a little better.