If I die while playing a game of Magic who is declared the winner?
Asked by JoJaBi 11 years ago
If I were to literally fall off my chair and die in the middle of a tournament, would the game I died during be declared a draw or would I just lose? Or would something else happen?
I'm genuinely curious.
That makes sense I suppose. If my opponent had just played Iona, Shield of Emeria or something similar, they'd definitely call it a scoop.
November 24, 2013 2:24 a.m.
I hadn't thought about disqualification... Do you think there's a chance they'd go by life totals?
November 24, 2013 2:26 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #6
I would think they would award you a penalty for slow play. Maybe just a warning though. You need to make sure you reincarnate in a timely fashion so that it doesn't turn into a game loss though.
November 24, 2013 2:53 a.m.
Haha, yeah! Or I could just Regrowth myself :D Game says I'm a planeswalker, planeswalkers are cards - I'm a valid target!
But has this ever happened? If there were an official decision put into the comprehensive rulebook how would it read? It MIGHT give the head judge jurisdiction.
November 24, 2013 2:59 a.m.
smash10101 says... #8
you would loose eventually since you would fail to pass priority. Slow play is a thing that matters when you are completely unresponsive.
November 24, 2013 3 a.m.
So four opinions have been given and they all point to the deceased losing the game (unless he reincarnates). Slow play seems pretty plausible though. When I posted the question I was leaning toward a draw being the result. Insufficient material or something like that. But I'm not sure anymore, these are all excellent possibilities, albeit different ones... I wonder what Richard Garfield would say.
November 24, 2013 3:09 a.m.
smash10101 says... #11
you could always ask wizards customer support. They're very good with this sort of thing. Just call them when they're open (I think not till Monday)
November 24, 2013 3:16 a.m.
Hmm... MTG Salvation, were it to list rules for this scenario, could very well rule that if any or all of the above occurred, the deceased would be in fault and then lose the game. But that's assuming that the same rules that apply to the living apply to the dead. So I guess that's where it all boils down to, more or less. I think it is anyway...
November 24, 2013 3:17 a.m.
@smash10101: I doubt whoever received the call would have a solid opinion. But I think I might try that come Monday. Though Mondays a good 48 hours off yet.
November 24, 2013 3:21 a.m.
Well more like 30 hours in my time zone, but that's still a ways off. And as said, they might not know. I'm still leaning toward a draw personally, but most, it seems, would vote loss to the dead player. Which would make sense for a number of reasons.
November 24, 2013 3:26 a.m.
GoblinsInc says... #15
I would assume the player who dies receives slow play penalties, just like we had set up for if the rapture occurred during an event (As there had been a weekend the other year where someone claimed the rapture would occurr, and some judges put together a procedure guide just in case).
This link seems to have a decent copy of it, if anyone feels like reading it.
http://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/5632607507/official-dci-rules-for-the-rapture-you-must-read
November 24, 2013 5:10 a.m.
Haha, that article is genius! I have to show that to some friends.
You know, that might be it though. Only, during the rapture players are deliberately not taking their turns while players that are just dying are being unwillingly prevented from taking theirs. But that's the most concrete theory so far. I'll call Wizards customer support on Monday to pitch your theory, GoblinsInc. Who knows, maybe someone at Wizards has pondered this very question.
November 24, 2013 5:28 a.m.
I believe in that situation you are permitted to play a game of Magic against Death and if you win you can come back to life and continue the original game.
November 24, 2013 6:13 a.m.
I wonder what kind of deck Death would play... Scary thought given you're life depends on whether or not the can beat whatever deck Death is using... Which is probably x666 Chancellor of the Dross .
November 24, 2013 6:54 a.m.
Although probably the most unfortunate way to do so, I would think that if a player died he/she would would be considered to have forfited the game.
November 24, 2013 7:02 a.m.
So if you were at FNM, or what have you, and one of the players died, if the surviving player asked how the thing would be scored, you'd give him the game, right? I mean, I doubt the dead player would mind, so why not?
I suppose one of those overly competitive players might complain about rigging the scores, but chances are low.
November 24, 2013 7:16 a.m.
nobody here is mentioning the fact that the staff would likely be more concerned because somebody just died? I think the judges and staff would be kinda busy what with ambulances and hospitals and all
November 24, 2013 8:39 a.m.
Dalektable says... #22
kanofudo of course, but only after the winner was declared. And i agree with the others, i think dying would mean you scooped.
November 24, 2013 8:42 a.m.
I'm not sure if these rules cover the living dead though, and should accommodate accordingly in the event of a zombie apocalypse.
November 24, 2013 9:27 a.m.
UncleJackNasty says... #25
i think probably you would need to have a Storm Crow out in order to win first, even if you were to die
November 24, 2013 11:08 a.m.
tribble-tribal says... #26
I think it should be considered a draw to dissuade people from poisoning their opponents.
November 24, 2013 11:15 a.m.
UncleJackNasty says... #27
Maybe you'll come back as a token if you have Xathrid Necromancer in play,? @jojabi
November 24, 2013 11:17 a.m.
@Goody and tribble-tribal, I'm glad you mentioned that. As posted earlier, there are some REALLY competitive players out there and I can only imagine that if an official ruling was put it place stating that "if your opponent dies" you win the game... Somewhere, every now and then, things might get ugly. Likely, If things DID get ugly in this way, the rules would promptly be revised to "if your opponent dies of natural causes..." you win the game. The addition of "natural causes" would save many a Magic players life.
November 24, 2013 1:35 p.m.
UncleJackNasty, good call. There's a better chance of Xathrid Necromancer working out than reincarnation. The necromancer doesn't even require the player who died to be buried in a graveyard, they just have to die. But upon returning from death, the player would lose planeswalker privileges as Xathrid Necromancer would reanimate your corpse into a measly 2/2 zombie. I wonder if one reanimated as such would still be able to cast spells as efficiently as all his planeswalker counterparts...
November 24, 2013 1:44 p.m.
Haha, Goody, I hadn't even thought about the fact that if a player with an active Xathrid Necromancer died while it was still on the field, he or she would have just accidentally brought about a zombie apocalypse. Zombies are highly contagious and my LGS tends to be rather crowded during tournaments.
Lesson learned: if you're feeling exceptionally ill, like maybe you might die soon, do NOT bring your Xathrid Necromancer s to FNM and if you do by accident, DON'T cast any them.
November 24, 2013 2:04 p.m.
smash10101 says... #35
Xathrid Necromancer would not trigger, because you are not a human creature you control. Crisis averted.
November 24, 2013 2:11 p.m.
GoblinsInc says... #36
I am definitely a human creature I control. Hell, I'm the only human creature I control.
November 24, 2013 2:15 p.m.
smash10101 says... #37
no, you are a planeswaker with the subtype GoblinsInc
November 24, 2013 2:17 p.m.
Technically, I am a human creature, so that checks out, but do I control myself? I don't see why not. But I hope you're right, smash10101, Xathrid Necromancer is a great card. It'd be a shame to have everyone stop using it due to paranoia about the possibility of starting a zombie apocalypse. Being solely responsible for a zombie apocalypse would probably earn you eternal damnation in one of the those exceptionally low levels of hell.
November 24, 2013 2:20 p.m.
tribble-tribal says... #39
What about a Laboratory Maniac -style card. "If you would die, you win the game instead."
Because of the replacement effect, you can safely commit suicide to win the game!
November 24, 2013 3:01 p.m.
smash10101 says... #40
Also, if you had Xathrid Necromancer out, if it did trigger and you were dead, you could get a warning for a missed trigger.
November 24, 2013 3:08 p.m.
MartialArt says... #41
I would say you count as "removed from game"?
This way you would kind of loose I think. :-P
November 24, 2013 3:10 p.m.
@tribble-tribal, Sounds like a good fit for the third Un-set.
If you would die during the game, you win the game. (Reminder/Clarification text: You will only win the game if you die outside the game. Otherwise you will lose the game as normal)
I can see something like Phyrexian Unlife or Lich maybe working if 0 life could be stretched to apply to 0 literal life or 0 pulse. But then you'd have the problem of a player dying and, if Phyrexian Unlife 's first ability does in fact apply to the situation, being unable to lose from the fact that they're dead and have 0 life, but being dead none the less...
@MartialArt I think that would apply more to the rapture scenario mentioned by GoblinsInc. But that might be it. The corpse of the dead player isn't really the player anymore, after all. It's just a shell with it's inhabiter gone to the afterlife. So one could argue that the player was removed from their body and thus the game.
November 24, 2013 3:26 p.m.
I asked Tabak, the rules manager: his response was "the beneficiary of the insurance policy".
November 24, 2013 3:48 p.m.
Haha, that's hilarious! But it still leaves one question unanswered. I guess I'll still have to call Wizards for an official answer to who wins the interrupted game. I'm looking forward to it actually. I'm pretty confident someone there will have dealt with this possibility before. I mean, in more high level tournaments with professionals competing, a lot of money can be at stake. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if there's actually an official ruling somewhere.
November 24, 2013 4:03 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #46
Please do not try to kill your opponent. There are easier ways to win a match.
November 24, 2013 5:41 p.m.
Tradeylouish says... #47
Serious answer:
At Competitive REL, the death of a player would be considered exceptional circumstances, as defined by the Infraction Procedure Guide. The course of action would be at the discretion of the Head Judge.
At Regular REL, it's basically the same. The Judging at Regular REL document instructs judges to use common sense in situations not covered by the document.
It is most likely that the tournament would not continue, as the priority would be dealing with the death of the player - calling an ambulance etc.
If results were to be entered, it would probably be assumed that the deceased had conceded the match (their opponent would win the round). The player would then be dropped from the tournament.
November 24, 2013 6:40 p.m.
Samuel_The_Seer says... #48
If I was playing a person who just suddenly dropped dead, I would tap 1 black and cast Undying Evil . You work for me now.
November 24, 2013 6:48 p.m.
Actually, you opponent would come back under thier own control stronger than they were if you cast Undying Evil because it says "owners control" and each person owns themselves.
November 24, 2013 6:51 p.m.
smithereen says... #50
Furthermore, as per the rules, a player reaching zero life (IRL) dies as a state-based action. You can't respond to state-based actions, the player would hit the graveyard before you had priority.
November 24, 2013 7:11 p.m.
@Tradeylouish: So that's it then. There have been rules assigned to "exceptional events", which "death of a player mid-game" would most likely fall under. So your verdict would be that the present Head Judge would decide the scoring after the dead player was taken care of.
November 24, 2013 7:31 p.m.
This is the most metal magic question I've ever heard. Fuckin brutal man.
November 24, 2013 8:44 p.m.
Tell me about it. I was just struck with this curiosity over what the answer would be, or become, if someone died in the middle of their turn. Though giving the decision to the head judge ins't really a ruling it is a solution. With something so specific (there isn't much variety between the cases of people dropping dead instantly, they just drop dead) you'd think there'd be a specific matter-of-fact answer. Still planning on calling Wizards tomorrow...
November 24, 2013 9:10 p.m.
And another thought, what if the player died on his opponents turn? The deceased player wouldn't even be able to begin his turn.
Definitely calling Wizards tomorrow...
November 24, 2013 9:18 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #55
I can just imagine someone collapsing in their chair during a game on their turn, the opponent just sitting there waiting for priority to pass so he can respond.
November 24, 2013 9:56 p.m.
Or even, "In response to your death, I'm going to cast Sphinx's Revelation ." Great question man.
November 24, 2013 10:11 p.m.
nicktack15 says... #58
Please let us know what Wizards say! haha. Great question by the way. I believe it would end up with the deceased losing. Slow play and stuff like that, unless you had a recording on your phone that went off every 30 seconds saying, "Go ahead, your turn." or something like that.
November 24, 2013 10:40 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #59
If a player is unable to complete a game for any reason, whether this is having a heart attack and falling dead or having to leave for a meeting, they are considered to have withdrawn from the tournament.
November 24, 2013 10:42 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #60
inb4 opponent uses mending touch on themselves
November 25, 2013 12:09 a.m.
Thanks twospires and nicktack15! And thanks to everyone for contributing to the discussion, I've found this entire feed both fascinating and informative, as well as completely hilarious at times. Tappedout really does have a fantastic community.
Mending Touch would probably work but, obviously, whoever died couldn't really cast it in response to his own death. The opponent would have to have an untapped G producer, a Mending Touch in hand, and then ask himself "how important is winning this game to me?... Not that important" and then put the spell on the stack just above his opponents death. The stack would then resolve top to bottom and the dead guy would be regenerated... Unless the opponent targeted something else.
@nicktack15 I'll try to get a call into Wizards earlier than later tomorrow. I'll post whatever I learn as soon as I finish the call. I have a feeling I'm going to learn either a lot or nothing at all.
November 25, 2013 12:31 a.m.
smash10101 says... #62
If you think this question is sufficiently resolved, please select an answer. Or just let it go for a few more days while we discuss whatever Wizards says. Might be the record for longest Q&A.
November 25, 2013 1:48 a.m.
I'm fairly confident Wizards will give a good solid answer without any doubting it. Up till this point it's mixed. The majority of comments so far would say that if I would die during a game of Magic I would lose the game. But everyone I've asked the question to in person has chuckled a bit, then after a brief moment of serious thought, answered that a draw would probably be the case. I do play with a more casual group of players though.
November 25, 2013 2:52 a.m.
I believe an answer should be chosen so this stops appearing in the 'Latest MTG Q&A'.
November 25, 2013 5:14 a.m.
I would choose an answer if there was one. I could just pick a reasonable comment and call it the answer, but I don't think my choice of one of these many theories would be a very legitimate way of resolving the question. Don't worry though, jonhydude, it should be answered before the end of Monday. As I said above, I'm going to call Wizards as early as possible. Whatever the decision is on their side of the phone, I'll post and take as the official answer. Couldn't do much better than that. After all, this Q&A has only been up for just over a day at this point.
November 25, 2013 7:17 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #66
If someone died, his 'death' already has resolved. So stuff like Mending Touch or similar wouldn't work. You'd rather cast something like Reanimate .
November 25, 2013 7:19 a.m.
Yeah, that's a good point, RussischerZar. The logic behind using the stack doesn't really apply to life outside Magic. Don't see why you couldn't target a creature in a graveyard with Reanimate , regardless of whether the creature was laid to rest in an MTG graveyard, or a real physical graveyard. What's the converted mana cost of a human being though?
November 25, 2013 7:32 a.m.
MartialArt says... #68
since a player isn't a card he or she has no mana cost. This way the mana cost of a player would be 0. He or she still can't be cast since he or she can't be a card in your deck. Due to being no card a Reanimate d player would be a 0/0 with no abilities and would die unless you have something out like Gaea's Anthem .
November 25, 2013 7:53 a.m.
So you'd be reanimated only to die shortly there after. That would be infuriating!!
November 25, 2013 8:04 a.m.
MartialArt says... #70
You would die AGAIN. That's even more frustrating. But this way you would be literaly more dead then before. This paradox may be a bit confusing.
November 25, 2013 8:13 a.m.
MartialArt says... #71
But if you have a black-white reanimator deck having a knife in the pocket could be a good option.
Think about this situation. You have no card in your hand to put something in your graveyard but you have a Plains , a Swamp , a Reanimate and a Wordmail . If you use the knife on turn 2 to reanimate the dead player after you dropped the Wordmail you would still have a 2/2 out on the field (or more if the player has more then 2 names).
;-P
November 25, 2013 8:16 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #73
What if you suspend Living End
before you die? Since you go to your own graveyard, would you "reanimate yourself" into the game of magic?
Ooohhhhh
November 25, 2013 11:34 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #74
I selected an answer so this moves out of the active queue. Feel free to change it later.
Also, this thread is great.
November 25, 2013 1:19 p.m.
Okay, thanks Epochalyptik! :) Sorry if the comment stream was causing problems or if you were getting complaints or anything!
harrydemon117, that's a pretty awesome idea! Suspend it one or two turns before you die and your set!
@MartialArt Haha, "literally more dead then before." Again, thanks so much everyone for your contributions to the thread - and that goes for everyone of course. This is the most enjoyable discussion I've ever had on any MTG website. I'm going to put a link to this thread on my profile so it doesn't get lost in cyberspace :) Good times, good times.
November 25, 2013 2:25 p.m.
@MartialArt: Wouldn't that scenario end with you being disqualified for murdering your opponent in order to reanimate them?
Also, if you reanimate yourself or an opponent and the game comes to a conclusion both players will leave the game. Would this, by default cause the effect of the spell or permanent which reanimated said actual person to no longer apply and thus leave said player once again in a literally dead state?
November 25, 2013 2:42 p.m.
There are two problems with using Reanimate to bring yourself back to life. First of all, you'd have to wait until you actually had a funeral and got put into a graveyard. I doubt many opponents would sit there quietly waiting for you to get to a graveyard. Second, it would put you on the battlefield, without ever saying that you would come back to life! So your opponent would end up with a dead body sprawled across the table. Not a very good way to end a Magic game. I would advise against it.
November 25, 2013 3 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #79
If reanimate won't work for reasons twospires brings up, and that the opponent would come in as a 0/0, how about vigor mortus? You come in as a 1/1 AND due to vigor mortis's name, you clearly come back with at least some semblance of energy, if not alive!
November 25, 2013 4 p.m.
emrakool, seriously though, why haven't we mentioned that? If a player murders an opponent, he isn't going to win the game! Good point, man. He'd be disqualified, have his cards confiscated, and then be locked up for a while.
twospires, that's probably the most sensible comment on this thread Haha
Update: Haven't called Wizards yet because I've been resolving an order with EVO. Just got that straighten out though and am going to call once I find the best number for the situation.
November 25, 2013 4:08 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #81
On second thought, what if you use Preordain , see you own death during the turn, then cast Invincibility on yourself?
November 25, 2013 4:31 p.m.
Do you mean Inviolability ? I can't find any card called Invincibility but if there is one and I just missed it, seems like it should work haha
November 25, 2013 4:42 p.m.
@nicktack15: Call with Wizards completed. The phone was answered almost instantly and the guy on the other end of the phone, Dan, seemed pretty sure of his opinion.
I pitched the question and his initial response was "Wow - uh... well" and then he proceeded to answer the question.
According to Dan, there isn't any determined set of steps to take upon a player's death and that, as Tradeylouish conjectured, the decision would be given to the Head Judge of the tournament. I asked what the judge would go by in his decision and Dan said things like the current state of the game, life totals or other factors could all play into it. Basically, the head Judge Decides and that's all there is to it.
At the end of the call I asked if there were any events of players dying mid-game. Dan was pretty sure there weren't but added he hoped there never was and laughed a bit before the conversation ended and we both said bye and hung up.
Another really great example of customer service. It took my literally 10 second to get to the right department, which then answered the phone immediately. Dan was friendly and quick to answer! 5 stars for Wizards customer service - Yay!
I suppose I'll have this post be the selected answer since the answer came from the gameplay department itself. We have found ourselves an answer, thanks to Dan!
November 25, 2013 4:45 p.m.
Oh yeah, Indestructibility ! That's a really neat solution. Although I have this picture stuck in my head of the guy in the center of the Indestructibility art being replaced by some indestructible dead magic player Haha
November 25, 2013 5:16 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #86
Really? I have the image of the guy being still alive in the center, but everyone else in the room is dead because the explosion in the picture happened in the middle of a crowded FNM XD
November 25, 2013 5:19 p.m.
Haha! Photoshop a little troll face on the guy in the art and pile up dead bodies in the crater with the caption "It's super effective!"
November 25, 2013 5:35 p.m.
Yeah :D Dan did a great job. Go go, Dan!
At least I think his name was Dan...
November 25, 2013 5:37 p.m.
If only Dan, if his name is indeed Dan, could see this thread.
November 25, 2013 6:02 p.m.
HorrorAvengers says... #92
Now that we know the answer, here's the real question.... Who wants to test it?
November 25, 2013 8:26 p.m.
lol. I love it. Unfortunately, I don't have any copies of Xathrid Necromancer , Reanimate , Indestructibility , or Living End , so I'm going to have to ask to not be the guinea pig, since I'm not entirely certain I'll be able to come back.
November 25, 2013 8:31 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #94
Well, Ghost is my name... maybe I'll come back as a ghost?
November 25, 2013 8:34 p.m.
You're volunteering? Let us know how it goes.
Or, if it doesn't go so well... get somebody else to let us know how it went.
November 25, 2013 8:35 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #96
Yeah sure. I'll come back to haunt this thread.
Or you.
November 25, 2013 8:39 p.m.
Maybe we should get somebody else to try.... I don't know why, I just think it would be a good idea. Somebody who, maybe, can't come back as a ghost.
November 25, 2013 8:42 p.m.
If we can't come back as ghosts what is Moorland Haunt good for?
November 25, 2013 9:57 p.m.
What, you want to go into exile, after dying? That can't be fun.
November 25, 2013 10:05 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #100
That's like saying you get ripped from the afterlife into... nothing. You just dissolve and a Spirit magically appears where you just were.
November 25, 2013 10:07 p.m.
Wouldn't Moorland Haunt just exile your corpse? You're human conscience will still be in tact in the form of a white flying spirit. Could be pretty fun. You'd be famous at Halloween events, at least.
November 25, 2013 10:48 p.m.
Oh... hey... didn't think about that. Still... how do we know that said consciousness goes into this Spirit token? I get the feeling that tokens mostly spend all their lives shoved in a beckbox all the time. I don't think I would have much fun with that.
November 25, 2013 11:37 p.m.
Hey, you're right. It does say token... Being a Spirit token would be a pathetic excuse of an existence. But just being a spirit could be fun. Depends on how positive a thinker you are.
November 26, 2013 1:49 a.m.
SolelyUbiquitous says... #104
If the deceased wins, what sort of humiliation falls upon the opponent?
November 26, 2013 1:27 p.m.
Same :P I logged in to my Tappedout for some modern shenanigans and stumbled back upon this full fledged debate lol This'll always be my favorite stream xD so much comedic gold from everyone. Tappedout community = boss.
smithereen says... #1
I can only assume that you would be considered to have scooped up.
November 24, 2013 2:19 a.m.