Death to Illusions?
Asked by Wabbbit 13 years ago
If I have a Phantasmal Dragon, and I play a Grand Architect, does the dragon die because he is being targeted by the architect?
GoblinsInc says... #2
Not unless you use his ability to make the "target" creature blue. Things like "other blue creatures you control get +1/+1" do not target (note the lack of the word target being used in the ability.
Though certain things like equip (or casting aura spells) target due to their rules
April 10, 2012 2:24 p.m.
Another question about illusions like Phantasmal Image - if I use a spell like Tragic Slip to target it and my opponent uses Mana Leak, does the image still get sacrificed? From simply being targeted, even if the spell doesn't resolve?
April 10, 2012 2:44 p.m.
KorApprentice says... #5
Yes. When you declare Phantasmal Image as the target for Tragic Slip and put it onto the stack, Phantasmal Image's ability will trigger and be placed on the stack above Tragic Slip. Once an ability has been placed on the stack, it is independent of its source and it will continue to resolve unless it is countered by something like Stifle or Trickbind.
April 10, 2012 2:47 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
When an illusion with that ability becomes the target of something, the ability triggers. Countering whatever triggered it won't change that, and the ability will eventually resolve, unless it's somehow countered by some other effect (very few cards can do this).
April 10, 2012 2:48 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
This is the relevant rule:
114.9a Just because an object or player is being affected by a spell or ability doesn't make that object or player a target of that spell or ability. Unless that object or player is identified by the word "target" in the text of that spell or ability, or the rule for that keyword ability, it's not a target.
For your second question, refer to this rule:
112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, anyactivated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
In this case, you would have to counter or exile the triggered ability of Phantasmal Image, since it now exists on the stack and is not related to the spell that triggered it.
April 10, 2012 6:16 p.m.
Sorry, newb here. So if Phantasmal Image was the target of a Tragic Slip for example, then it's triggered ability would then go on top of the stack. Could I then Mana Leak that triggered ability and have it stay on the battlefield?
April 10, 2012 8:48 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
Mana Leak cannot target an ability; it can only target spells. Spells and abilities are different kinds of objects on the stack, and you must use an appropriate counter for each of them. In this case, you would need something like Stifle or Voidslime to counter the sacrifice ability.
April 10, 2012 8:50 p.m.
Ok, thanks. That makes more sense. If I ever start an Illusion deck, I am just going to include a few Lord of the Unreal
April 10, 2012 8:57 p.m.
OrgasmAndTea says... #12
Hehe, if your illusion copies Lord of the Unreal, it gives itself hexproof and +1/+1. Free tip there =)
April 11, 2012 7:06 a.m.
lord isnt an illusion though...try it with drogskol captain.
April 11, 2012 9:28 p.m.
KorApprentice says... #14
Alex343, I believe OrgasmAndTea is referring to Phantasmal Image, which will indeed be an illusion if it copies Lord of the Unreal because it gains that subtype as per the text of the card. And because Lord of the Unreal does not say "other illusion creatures", then the Phantasmal Image copy will give itself +1/+1 and hexproof.
April 11, 2012 9:34 p.m.
oh, yeah. one of them has hexproof and the other doesnt. thats kinda silly haha.
April 12, 2012 12:55 a.m.
DownBlunder says... #17
I have a question,what is I Phantasmal Dragon and it fights an other flying creature, which in the rules and that little hand you get if you buy an booster deck,does that count as being targeted if that was a spell or ability?
as my friend things it does and I don't?
April 15, 2012 10:41 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #18
What exactly are you asking?
If Phantasmal Dragon blocks or is blocked by another creature in combat, that is not the same as targeting. There is no targeting involved in the combat process, disregarding spells and abilities.
If Phantasmal Dragon fights (as in the Innistrad keyword) another creature (such as Nightfall Predator), then it depends. The spell or ability that made it fight only targets if it specifically uses the word target.
April 15, 2012 10:46 p.m.
Prey Upon targets both creatures.
Prey Upon goes to bottom of stack, Phantasmal Dragons ability goes to the top of the stack and comes off first, making you sac it.
April 15, 2012 10:47 p.m.
DownBlunder says... #20
but what counts as a spell when ever card in the game is a spell?
April 15, 2012 10:50 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #21
A spell is a card (or copy of a card) that is cast, usually from the hand. When you cast a spell, if that spell has a permanent type (creature, enchantment, artifact, etc.), then it will enter the battlefield as that permanent when it resolves. If it is an instant or sorcery, it will be placed into its owner's graveyard when it resolves. To cast a spell, you pay its mana cost (found in the top right corner of the card) and any additional costs, usually found in the text box of the spell (for example, to cast Bone Splinters, you would pay one black mana and sacrifice a creature).
An ability can be either activated or triggered. A triggered ability usually begins with the word "at," "when," or "whenever" and is put onto the stack whenever its trigger condition is met. An activated ability requires the payment of an activation cost and may normally be used at instant speed unless otherwise stated (for example, the activated ability of Prodigal Pyromancer has the activation cost of tapping Prodigal Pyromancer).
April 15, 2012 11:04 p.m.
DownBlunder says... #22
what if I have hexproof on my Phantasmal Dragon and Prey Upon attacks it, what happens to the Prey Upon
April 15, 2012 11:54 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #24
Nightfall Predator can't use its ability to fight something its ability can't target. Therefore, if your opponent controls Nightfall Predator, he or she can't use its ability to fight your hexproof Phantasmal Dragon.
If you mean in combat, creatures don't attack creatures, they attack players. If Phantasmal Dragon blocks or becomes blocked by Nightfall Predator, it will still take combat damage. Again, nothing about combat targets.
April 16, 2012 12:01 a.m.
DownBlunder says... #25
Ok what happens to the 1 life taken from controller if Vapor Snag was used, or dose nothing happen to the hexproof Phantasmal Dragon
April 16, 2012 12:07 a.m.
DownBlunder says... #27
say if the player that used Vapor Snag had no other card to use, used it on the Phantasmal Dragon, would the 1 life still go through, even that the Dragon has hexproof
April 16, 2012 12:12 a.m.
DownBlunder says... #28
even is the Phantasmal Dragon did not have hexproof would you still take the 1 life?
April 16, 2012 12:16 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #29
You can't cast a spell or activate an ability naming an illegal target. If Phantasmal Dragon has hexproof, an opponent can't cast Vapor Snag on it because it is an illegal target for that spell.
If Phantasmal Dragon doesn't have hexproof or you cast Vapor Snag on your own Phantasmal Dragon, the sacrifice ability of Phantasmal Dragon will trigger and go on top of the stack above the Vapor Snag. The Phantasmal Dragon will be sacrificed and then Vapor Snag will fizzle (be countered as a state-based action) because its target it illegal. Since it is countered, none of its effects happen and Phantasmal Dragon's former controller doesn't lose 1 life.
April 16, 2012 12:21 a.m.
Ince_Velus says... #31
If i use phantasmal image to copy a phantasmal image, let's say that I copied a lord but the first one was destroyed and I only have my phantasmal left, since it states "copy" target creature, then would my phantasmal illusion be destroyed? Or would it stay as the effect does not state "copy target"
April 24, 2012 1:25 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #32
An effect only targets if it specifically uses the word "target" in its rules text. Phantasmal Image's copy ability doesn't target.
April 24, 2012 1:27 p.m.
Ince_Velus says... #33
Awesome, I was looking at spellskite and it state "CHANGE the target of a spell to spellskite" so since that illusion is no longer being targeted, does it get destroyed? or because it was targetted does it die anyway? also I looked into it and you can change the target of a counter spell instant to spellskite thus negate=ing all countering
April 26, 2012 5:01 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #34
When the illusion gets targeted, it's ability triggers. Changing the target doesn't change that fact, and the ability will eventually resolve and cause the illusion to be sacrificed.
It's not possible to change the target of countermagic to Spellskite, because an effect that changes targets can only change them to legal targets. Spellskite isn't a spell while he's on the battlefield, so he's not a legal target for Counterspell. You're allowed to activate Spellskite's ability, but nothing will happen when it resolves.
April 26, 2012 5:04 p.m.
Ince_Velus says... #35
well, I had seen that if the moment they cast the spell RIGHT before targetting you can change it to spellskite so the illusion didnt die
April 26, 2012 6:28 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #36
Wherever you read that or whoever you heard it from, it was wrong. Casting a spell involves choosing targets, making all other choices, and paying all costs, and no one can respond until all of that is finished.
April 26, 2012 8:02 p.m.
Ince_Velus says... #37
so spellskites are pointless in my illusion deck?I run 4 masters and 4 images so i mean cloning a master is common to counter act killing my illusions, but I thoght spellskite would come in handy, now its just another thing to cast with my grand arcitect
April 26, 2012 8:41 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #38
That's right. Spellskite's ability can't be used to save an illusion that's been targeted by something.
April 26, 2012 9 p.m.
you could use Azorius Guildmage to counter the illusion creatures' activated ability.
April 26, 2012 11:46 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #40
It isn't an activated ability, it's a triggered ability. Activated abilities are written as "[cost] : [effect]", and triggered abilities are written to begin with "when", "whenever", or "at". Only Stifle, Trickbind, and Voidslime can counter triggered abilities.
KorApprentice says... Accepted answer #1
Global effects do not target. If a spell or ability targets anything, it must specifically use the word 'target'. This is why Day of Judgment
can kill creatures with shroud or hexproof, it does not target them.
April 10, 2012 2:21 p.m.