Y Huntmaster,cards, are werewolf staples. Comparisions
General forum
Posted on March 2, 2012, 7:26 a.m. by mikedh1
DKA realeased 3 new must have werewolf cards, that are staple, must have cards, and should be in every werewolf deck, in addition, to the staple,must have cards, from innistrad.
Now I am going to do a logical comparision of why some werewolf deck cards, are better fits in a werewolf deck then others. This is not to say that everybody's werewolf deck is, or has to be exactly the same. There are 3 to 9 card slots, in any werwwolf deck, that can be used for variation, so don't have to be the same. But despite that, there are cards that should be in almost every werewolf deck, and listed as key cards, on every werewolf related deck hub.
So here are the must have cards:
3
Some say this card shouldn't be in werewolf decks, because it and another must have card , and . A good spirit deck, would not choose a spirit version of instigator gang or Kruin outlaw, over Drogskull captain, just like NO werewolf deck should choose a Gang, or a outlaw over the werewolf captain immerwolf. Also can be Green Sun Searched up, into play
3 vs , or Kruin outlaw. Wolfbitten Captive as a 1 drop, can self pump pre and post flip, and can be pumped to a 9/8 to 10/9 werewolf by, on turn 5. thats better then reckless waif, and Kruin outlaw. Can also be Green Sun searched up, into play.
that's it from DKA.
From Innistrad:
3,4 can be pumped, and fight,kill almost anything,everything, and is also better then Kruin Outlaw, and Instigator Gang.
3,4 3 1 of the best 2 mana drops in the game, and the best 2 mana drop for werewolves. pumps all werewolves, and wolves, and werewolf,wolf tokens. Creates tokens. As such, is better then Instigator Gang, and Kruin Outlaw.
2,3 the planewalker does everything, from doing 3 burn damage, to putting out 2/2 wolf tokens, preflip, and putting out 1/1 deathtouch wolves, searcdhing up werewolves, and a overrun, or overwhelming stampede mass pump of all werewolves, for just 4 mana. Every deck should have 2,3 of him.
4 Full Moon's Rise gives all your werewolves +1,/, +0, trample, and can sac to make all werewolves regenerate, from spot removal, and from board wipe. every werewolf deck should have 4 of them.
3,4 Brimstone Volley does 3 to 5 damage to foe's face, or creatures. Everyy werewolf deck should have at least 3 of them.
2,3,4 Moonmist makes your werewolves flip, and protects them from damage, and also acts as a Fog
that leaves 3 to 6 non must have slots, for non must haves such as Green Sun's, Chandra's, Beast Within's, Dismembers, Arc Trails, instigator Gangs, Kruin Outlaws, Reckless waifs, Gastaf shepherds, etc, many different things. that means that there is plenty of room for variation, because of the 3 to 6 non must have slots.
It's time that werewolf decks run these must have cards, and have these must have cards, listed as key cards on werewolf deck hubs. Too often I see werewolf decks with 3,4 of these must have cards missing from their decks. Or just only have 1,2 of each of half the must have cards, in their decks. Or they errantly run 26 to 33 werewolves(way the hell to many creatures), instead of 19 to 22 werewolves, comprised of 3,4 of each of the must have werewolves, that should be in their decks.
Also decks that have the most of these must have cards, in their decks should be rated, ranked higher, have more +1's then those decks, that don't have these, or as many of these must have cards in their decks.
For a werewolf deck to be good, it should do the following things.
- Have 3,4 of the must have cards.
- have good card draw odds.
- get werewolves out at least semi fast.
- npump werewolves up
- consistently remove blockers out of the way.
- have sufficient burn, removal
- semi consistently win by,on turns 4,5 to turns 7,8.
- have a good sideboard, that will have answers for most things.
Now again I am not saying that every werewolf deck has to be the same. There 3 to 6 non must have card slots, is plenty of room to allow for variation. But every werewolf deck, if they want to have the best builds possible must have almost all of the must have cards I have listed here.
As reference to this, I am going to link to my werewolf deck, that has all of these must have cards, and 8 NON must have card slots(3 chandra's, 3 Green Suns, 2 Scorned Villagers), that has 61 cards, 22 lands, .3606% land, mana ratio, 19 creatures, 20 non creatures, 2 mana dudes, a 2.69 average cmc average, 4 4x 4 of's, 1 2x 2 of's, and the rest 3x 3 of's.
deck:fell-master-packs-hunt
Hope this logical list of must have cards, helps players build the best werewolf decks they can. And that it helps the must have cards get more recognition as key cards, in werewolf deck hubs, and helps decks using these must have cards, get more recognition, attention, higher ranks, ratings, +1's, etc.
Yes , is made more effective with , and , and , is like a a do everything swiss army knife. Well Garruk is like that to. And its that versatility that makes him a must have card. 2,3 of him is great in almost every werewolf deck. And there is a reason why the top rate werewolf decks, have 2,3 Garruk Relentless.
Parallel lives is overkill, overfocused, is not a pump, burn removal card, doesn't reverberate, can't be cast during foe's turn to help flip werewolves, 4 cmc to high for what little it does, is not a must have card. Huntmaster, Mayor, Garruk work just fine without parallel lives.
Red Sun, is not better, because your not going to be able to use it effectively until later turns when have enough mana to pump red sun up big. Brimstone Volley is better, because it does 3 to 5 damage for 2 colorless, 1 red for 3 cmc. Also Brimstone Volley is a instant, so can cast during foe's turn to destroy 1 of foe's creatures, during foe's turn, so that don't have to cast during your turn, so that can flip your werewolves, without moonmist.
Plus when you flip Daybreak Ranger, and Huntmaster, and then cast a reverberated Brimstone volley during foe's turn, you can destroy 4 of foe's creatures for 3 mana during foe's turn. So you flip all your werewolves, and destroy 4 of foes creatures, clear his board, then kill him, all for 3 mana.
That makes Brimstone better then Red Sun in a werewolf deck.
So logically Garruk Relentless, and Brimstone Volley are still logically must have staple cards, in werewolf decks.
that's why most to almost all top rated werewolf decks run Garruk, and Brimstone.
Only the lower rated not as good werewolf decks, dont run garruk, brimstone.
March 2, 2012 8:57 a.m.
IAmKingTony says... #4
The must card in any werewolf deck running Full Moon's Rise (aka all of them) is Blasphemous Act . Who cares about taking out one of their threats when you can take out all of their threats instead?
March 2, 2012 9:28 a.m.
Also you almost never ever see a werewolf deck, much less a top rated werewolf deck, running 2,3,4 , , , also in their decks.
Also, you almost never ever see a werewolf deck, much less a top rated werewolf deck,with, running 2,3,4 Red Sun's Zenith 's, over 3,4 Brimstone Volleys
Also you almost never ever see Parallel Lives, in a werewolf deck, much less a top rated werewolf deck.
Also you almost always see 2,3 [Garruk Relentless]], 3,4 Mayor's, 3 huntmasters, 3,4 Brimstone Voleys, in a top rated werewolf deck.
There are logical reasons for that, that I have logically explained.
That shows that Garruk, Mayor, Huntmaster, Brimstone, are must have staple cards, for werewolf decks.
And that shows that Red Suns, and Parallel lives, are NOT must have staple cards in werewolf decks.
March 2, 2012 9:33 a.m.
Blasphemous Act , is a good card, just not a must have have card.
its more of a sideboard card. Also its to expensive(9 cmc), unless your going up against a insanely fast token,horde,swarm deck, thats puts a sht load of tokens out early.
Even Slagstorm,and Ratchet Bomb which is better then Blaspemous Act, are cards I sideboard, unless I am 100% sure everybody is going to run the exact right decks, that those cards are the most effective against.
So because of that those cards named in this and your post, are not must have staple cards.
Now you could call those cards must have staple cards for sideboards.
But they are not must have, staple cards, for the mainboard, main deck, in a werewolf deck.
Also remember guys that there are 3 to 6 to 8 NON must have, NON staple card slots, that can use for any NON must have, NON staple cards, like Blasphemous Act, Ratchet Bomb, Slagstorm, Arc Trail, Red Sun, Green Sun, reverberate, chandra, dismember, Beast within, parallel lives,Instigator Gang, Kruin Outlaw, Gastaf Shepherd, Reckless Waif, etc etc, in the main deck.
Any borderline, semi almost must have, semi almost staple cards, should go in those 3 to 8 card slots, designated, as non must have non staple card slots.
And these cards, are not better, must have, staple cards, then the ones in the original post.
No way in hell is Blasphemous act better then the must have, staple cards, I listed for a werewolf deck
You won't find a top rated werewolf deck with 3,4 mainboard, maindecked blasphemous acts.
March 2, 2012 9:57 a.m.
is strictly a horrible card. It is a one drop but the ability to give it half a Titanic Growth for the same mana cost is BETTER than the flip side of paying 4 mana for a Titanic Growth. You almost never want the card to flip because than you would HAVE to keep 4 mana open to make it even the slightest bit useful.
March 2, 2012 10:33 a.m.
Your not seeing the VOLTRON effect of Wolfbitten Captive.
Yes Sure taken in a vaccum, all by itself, its not that good, for the reasons you named.
now try this cable guy. drop 1 Wolfbitten captive turn 1. Then drop Mayor, then drop immerwolf, then drop Full Moon's Rise. all that can happen easily by,on turns 4,5.
So your Wolfbitten Captive Flips. Now its a 2/2. Now you pay 4 mana on turn 4,5 to turn it into a 6/6(which is awesome. thats a 6/6 for 5 mana(1 mana to cast it, then flip it, then 4 more mana) compare that to all the other 6,7,8 cmc uncommon to rare 6/6's out there. But I forgot 6/6's for 5 mana grows on tree's now a days).
but if thats not enough 3,4 pump cards, then turn that 6/6 into a 9/8, 10/9 on by turn 4,5(but again I forgot a 10/9 for 7,8 mana, not all spent in 1 turn, grows on tree)
Even if you say: "but since you spent all that mana on making Wolfbitten captive that big, you wont have lots of other threats out, and its subject to getting blocked and removal.
well thats why you put out a Full moon's rise to protect it and all your other big werewolf's. And also since your not spending all that mana on any 1 given turn. then you have mana to do things like put out mayor's, immerwolfs, full moons rise to pump your Captive, and things like Brimstone volley, Daybreak Ranger, etc to remove blockers, that would block Captive.
So by itself, your right that Wolfbitten captive is not that great. But when combined with everything else, it becomes more then the sum of its parts, and combines with the synergy of the deck to form VOLTRON WEREWOLF, and then removal blockers, get its big time damage thru.
that's better then Reckless Waifr, and Young Wolf, etc. So Wolfbitten Captive is the best 1 mana drop cost werewolf,, wolf in werewolf decks. Thats why Wolfbitten Captive is a MUST HAVE STAPLE in the 1 cmc werewolves, slots, in a werewolf deck.
that's why most of the top rated werewolf decks run Wolfbitten Captives. And if they don't end up that great, well then most 1 mana drop werewolves, wolves, like reckless waif, and youngwolf, aren't that good, either. thats why they are 1 cmc's. Most 1 cmc(not all), are not that great.
But Wolfbitten Captive is just barely a semi must have, semi staple card, in the 1 cmc category, that should go in almost every werewolf deck.
Also if you run Scorned Villagers, spending mana to pump captive isnt a problem.
March 2, 2012 11:05 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
The thing is that needs so much support to just be playable compared to cards like that are playable even in non-wolf decks.
Also, the English major in me is dying.
March 2, 2012 12:52 p.m.
The worse part about it is that it doesnt have trample and can easily be blocked by a 1/1 spirit token. The card is just outright unplayable.
March 2, 2012 1:07 p.m.
That's True Epoch.
But:
- This is not other decks, this is in a werewolf deck, we are talking about.
- Huntmaster and Wolfbitten Captive, is not a fair comparison. since Captive, is a 1 cmc, and Huntmaster is a 4 cmc.
- What is a fair comparison, is [Wolfbitten Captive]] to , both are which 1 cmc's. and Captive wins that comparison. So in the 1 cmc semi must have staples, that should go in most werewolf decks, Captive beats out reckless waif.
- Yeah captive takes 4 [immerwolves]], 3,4 , 4 , 3,4 Huntmasters, 4 , mana ramper dudes, 16 burn removal cards, 16 pump cards, to make him, Captive, more then just playable.
But those cards are going to be in the deck anyways, whether or not have the Captives, or not. And your gona have 3,4 1 cmc werewolves, whether Waif's, or Captives. So since those support cards, make Captive better then Waif, might as well put 3 Captives in.
- Becoming a 8/7,9/8,10/9 VOLTRON WEREWOLF, by, on turn 5, is more then just "playable"
If that's just barely playable and not great,awesome, then what would be great,awesome?, A 40/40 by turn 6?, Or is that just barely slight above average now?
I think that players don't have a good idea, of whats good or bad anymore. I had a player on this site tell me that a 16/16 Stromkirk Noble by, on turn 4 wasn't that good.
Seems that magic players are becoming just a little Blase' about low cmc BIG HUGE CREATURES coming into play on turns 3,4,5, like that happens all the time, and grows on trees or something.
So those points above show that in the 1 cmc werewolf, semi must have, staple in werewolf decks, categories, that , is a Semi must have, semi staple 1 cmc werewolf card, for werewolf decks, that should go into most werewolf decks
March 2, 2012 1:31 p.m.
Guys. I like .
And what do you mean get a 40/40 by turn 6? How is that possible?
March 2, 2012 1:41 p.m.
Thats why you flip a Huntmaster, do 2 damage to a would be blocker of Wolfbitten Captive.
or you tap a unflipped Daybreak Ranger to do 2 damage to a flying would be blocker of Captive.
you use a flipped Daybreak Ranger to fight, kill the would be blocker of Captive.
or you use Brimstone Volley to get rid of the would be blocker of Captive.
Or you use the cards above to get rid of multiple would be blockers of Captive.
And if they block a 7/6, 8/7, 9/8, 10/9 Captive, on turn 5, then they also cant forget about the 7/6 flipped daybreak ranger, or the 7/6 huntmaster, or the 2,3 6/5 wolf tokens, or all of the above that I have out in addition to Captive. If they block captive, then something else just as nasty gets thru, and the blocker, blocking Captive dies.
I semi consistently get out early. Then semi consistently get other threats out that pump Captive, and each of those other threats, up, and then remove foe's, would be blockers, then pump up, either get Captive thru, or some other nasty werewolf thru.
that's why I have 17 burn removal cards in my werewolf deck. That's why I have 17 pump cards, that pump make all,(not just Captive),my werewolves super big.
In the right near perfect builds Wolfbitten Captive is awesome. In a bad build Captive isnt that good.
But overall Wolfbitten Captive is better then Reckless waif, and deserves the 3 1 cmc werewolf slots, that you are going to put in either Waifs, or Captive in anyways.
Anybody who would put in 1 cmc Reckless Waif, over 1 cmc Wolfbitten Captive, is NOT making the most optimal werewolf build possible.
March 2, 2012 1:54 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
The point that you just made is supportive of what I was saying. isn't good. It's just a body that's there; the other creatures are the ones doing everything.
March 2, 2012 2:10 p.m.
It Isn't possible miasma, to make a 40/40 by turn 6 in standard, that I know of. I was exxagerating to make a point.
And the point was, that even if it were easily possible(its not possible), Blase' magic players would be saying that a 40/40 Captive, or Stromkirk Noble, or any other creature by turn 6 would suck, and just not be that good.
Its like magic players think these super low cmc, pumped, huge creatures, grow on trees or something, and are a dime a dozen or something, and nothing special, good, etc.
Players don't see how a lot of pump, removal cards, and other threats, combine with Wolfbitten Captive, make VOLTRON WEREWOLVES, like a a 9/8 Wolfbitten Captive by,on turn 5, or a 7/7 Daybreak Ranger, or a 7/7 Huntmaster, or a 6/6 wolf token, etc.
The same thing happened in my land destruction deck. Players kept on saying how bad Hoard-Smelter Dragon was , and how there were way better dragons(and they were semi right), and that Hoard Dragon wasnt a must have in a land destruction deck, until I finally got it thru their heads what a awesome combo Hoard Dragon, Mana Dudes, 21 land destruction cards, and Liquimetal Coatings, was.
Until then, players kept saying the same thing about how bad Hoard dragon was, just like these guys are doing with Wolfbitten Captive.
Perhaps they will finally see,understand the logic, just like those players finally saw how good Hoard dragon was in that land destruction deck.
March 2, 2012 2:18 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #17
Having played with is a good card. Attacking with him as a 3/3 on Turn 2 means he gets to flip very early, and then you have a 6/6 on the later turns where you don't feel like curving out. If your opponent finds a way to deal with him after you've been pumping him up and holding back stuff for several turns, then you're catapulted into a "still had all these" position.
March 2, 2012 2:32 p.m.
If that were true epoch, and , were just a body, and didnt do anything, then Reckless Waif is a WORSE 1 cmc BODY, that does even less nothing that Captive does.
But that's not true of Captive. , gives itself a +4,/,+4 Bonus for 4 mana, which is easily doable with no problems whatsoever, as long as their is mana ramp, in the deck.
If Captive were just a Body that did nothing, it would be a 1/1 for 1 cmc that flipped into a 2/2, 2/3, 3/2, aznd nothing else. No pump, no nothing.
But at least Captive pumps. All does, is a 1/1 body for 1 cmc, that becomes a 3/2 body postflip, that just does NOTHING.
Because of that, IF your going to put 1, 3 of, 1 cmc werewolf into your deck, you choose Captive over Waif, because its better then waif.
If your not gona put Wolfbitten Captive, into a werewolf deck, then you shouldn't put in waif either, and just shouldn't run any 1 cmc wereolfs at all.
But IF your gona put in a 1 cmc werewolf into your deck, then you put in Wolfbitten Captive in, over Waif.
Anybody who would put Waif in, over Captive, just is not building their werewolf deck, the best they can.
And thats why Wolfbitten captive is a semi must have, semi staple of werewolf decks. Because almost every good werewolf deck, has 3 of a 1 cmc werewolf in the deck, whether that's Waif, or Captive.
Also almost all the top rated werewolf decks, run Wolfbitten Captive, over Reckless Waifs.
There is a reason why that is. The reason why it is, is because Wolfbitten captive is better then Recless waif, and is a semi must have, semi staple card for werewolf decks, or else the top rated decks, wouldnt consistently run it over reckless waifs.
March 2, 2012 2:44 p.m.
IAmKingTony says... #19
Captive is very good. One of the easier ways to swing a 3/3 on Turn 2.
That said, your deck there needs some form of mass removal. Swarm decks will overwhelm you and those are big right now.
March 2, 2012 2:56 p.m.
that's why any non insanely fast, non swarm,horde,token decks, should either have a meta switchboard, where you meta switchboard, main deck board clearing cards, like Ratchet Bomb, Slagstorm, etc, between tourneys, if your local meta, runs a lot of swarm.
Or you sideboard those cards.
Me I have 2,3 Racthet Bombs, and 3 slagstorms in both my between tourneys, meta switchboard, and in my sideboard.
I may get caught by suprise once in a while, and lose game 1 of a 3 game match, to a swarm deck. but after that, I am going to adjust and beat them.
Also I managed to destroy as many as 5 of foe's creatures, on turn 4 1 time, with cards like a reverberated Brimstone, 1,2 Daybreak Rangers, and 1,2 Huntmasters, and 1 Garruk Relentless.
So my 17 removal cards can almost keep pace with some of the swarm decks that are out there, without using cards like slagstorm, until I sideboard them in.
Also that's why Moonmist is good. that's 1,2 turns of no damage, and that may be all I need to beat a swarm deck.
Also this thread is not about weaknesses of a werewolf deck. Its about which,what cards, are, or should be must have staple cards for, in a good werewolf deck.
thanks for your comment
March 2, 2012 3:14 p.m.
Also Cable guy, there is a simple solution to giving a 7/6, 8/7, 9/8, 10/9 Wolfbitten Captive, on,by turn 5, trample.
its called running 4, getting out 1 Full Moon's Rise, that gives all werewolves, including even apparently sucky 9/8 Wolfbitten Captive, TRAMPLE.
March 2, 2012 3:29 p.m.
MasterFlinter says... #24
How to have a 40/40 by turn 6 in Standard:
Turn 1 play a land. A Mountain would be nice to let you use Faithless Looting. You would want to drop 2 creatures into the 'yard. You now have 2 creatures in the graveyard.
Turn 2 play another land, this time a Forest. Use Mulch to drop another 4 creatures into the 'yard. You now have 6 creatures in the graveyard.
Turn 3 play a third land and Splinterfright. He is a 6/6.
Turn 4 mill two creatures due to Splinterfright. Afterwards play a land and cast two more Mulch placing 8 creatures into the graveyard. Splinterfright is now a 16/16.
Turn 5 mill two more creatures with Splinterfright. He is now an 18/18. Cast Wreath of Geists to make him a 36/36.
Turn 6 mill two more creatures with Splinterfright. He is now a 40/40 on turn 6.
Obviously this sequence of events is completely rediculous but it is possible, and this isn't the only way to do it.
March 2, 2012 6:30 p.m.
Tony all you need to do is put out Wolfbitten Captive, turn 1.
Then flip Captive. Then put out 1 or 2 , 1 or 2 to a 6/6 on,by turn 5. the 4 pump cards, pump Captive up to a 10/9 on turn 5.
Masterflinter lol, now that was funny, lol, thanks for the laugh, lol.
March 2, 2012 8:04 p.m.
Also Masterflint don't you know that a 40/40 like that on by turn 6, sucks just as bad as a 10/9 Wolfbitten Captive on,by turn 5.
Why? you ask. "Well it can be easily removed". "but so can a lot of other creatures in standard". "But it can be easily blocked". "So can a lot of creatures" "It doesn't have trample". "you can easily give it trample"
"its just not good enough" "nothing, no creature, would be good, according to you, based on the attitude, thought, your showing now"
That's the kind of thought, attitude, that players seem to have nowadays.
No creature is ever good. 40/40 creatures, and low cmc pumped up 10/9 creatures grow on trees, and are quite common, and suck, are not good, etc, at least according to a lot of players nowadays.
No says... #2
is in no way a staple werewolf card.
If you are going down the route of Mayor of Avabruk and .
If you have them, Red Sun's Zenith
is better than Brimstone Volley
.
March 2, 2012 8:08 a.m.