Things I'm fairly certain of- someone is playing G/W or they would not have taken Graypelt Refuge over hate-drafting one of the remaining cards. Also, at least one other person is playing white given that Pillarfield Ox was drafted, and certainly it seems that green is a popular color in general.

I think the time is now to draft Electropotence . Murasa Pyromancer is crap in our deck, and Seismic Shudder is crap in general, though occasionally useful. We might consider scrapping a Joraga Bard to spite the person that drafted Oran-Rief Survivalist , or perhaps we get rid of the card:Nissa's Chosen, another solid creature.

I think Electropotence is nevertheless the best idea. It's not a horrible card to have in the late game, although I doubt it will actually make it into the deck. Still, almost any of these cards would be a respectable choice, either to include in our deck or to hate-draft.

Arg. Tough choice. Since green allies have been taken, we could hate draft Joraga Bard , but that Seismic Shudder is looking pretty good just for keeping board semi-controlled. As far as I can tell, theres nothing that we need to take in this pack.

I say hate draft the Bard.

Electropotence i think, its better than the Seismic Shudder in this deck, as i dont really see that for 1R, 1 damage to each creature as enough of an impact to play. Where as the electropotence offers a wider range.

Also think and Murasa Pyromancer is just too much of a mana whore and has no real use in this deck with little to no allies.

I agree with you Krazy in that we should at this point take the Electropotence rather than try to hate draft something. The bard doesn't seem like a particularly powerful deprivation that we would be working on anyone else, and so I believe it is not a very good choice. If we are going to hate draft somthing I would suggest it ought to be Nissa's chosen. But in this instance, with our draft set the way it is I like the idea of going with something we might actually play rather than hate draft one of two green creatures. Whom ever is playing green will likely get one of the two any how so it doesn't seem like a lot of benefit to go that route. Which is why Electropotence gets my vote.

Seismic Shudder is a great card for dealing with all the x/1's that run amok in zendikar. This is best used against cards like Cliff Threader (which is obviously going to be really good against us), Plated Geopede (which I believe only we use) or Zektar Shrine Expedition (see plated geopede comment).

card:Nissa's Chosen is a great card, and way better of a hate than Joraga Bard . Pyromancer isn't getting enough credit though. That guy is a beast.

card:Nissa's Chosen though, seriously. Don't want green ramp becoming too ramp-ant (god that was an awful pun)

Electropotence its a nice burn engine. and everything else in the pack doesn't fit or isnt very good.

Electropotence is silly and I'm certainly not going to play it, so why pick it? Seismic Shudder is a fine S/B card, but that is SUCH a late Nissa's chosen and if we open something redonk like a Rampaging Baloths next pack or heck even a nissa-rivane, we might audible. Plus if you're going to hate a card, Nissa's Chosen would be it.

card:Nissa's Chosen

I guess I'll talk about why I think Electropotence is silly

A. As it stands in this draft, we are doing swimmingly for removal, even if we don't play White, we have 2 bursts after pack 1. That's more than some people get in an entire draft! Hence why people play things like Slaughter Cry and Paralyzing Grasp .

B. I don't think anyone would say Electropotence is something you would prefer to play, and if we go R/B we aren't hurting on playables. Heck there's still plenty of time to Audible into another color and still pick up plenty of playables superior to Electropotence

C. While it's a bit slower than ZZZ, ZZW is still a race, I dont want to sink a turn into playing an enchantmen that doesn't 'Do' anything.

D. Between Kor Sanctifiers , card:Nature's Claim, card:Iona's Judgment, Mold Shambler , Relic Crush , and Into the Roil , ALL commons, there's more Enchantment hate than creature hate!

I'm convinced. Electropotence is not a good idea, the more I think about it, the fewer situations I can think of where it could possibly be relevant. Still, I'm not sure; I think that Joraga Bard is maybe more dangerous than card:Nissa's Chosen, given that someone is drafting allies out there, and it might be the dude to our left for all we know.

Kabra's right, in terms of quality for ourselves, Chosen is better. Still, I think it would be pretty rough to audible into green when we have no other green cards and aren't going to get any decent ones for the rest of the pack. Plus at least 2 or 3 people have to be drafting green here. So I'm going to change the vote up to Joraga Bard .

-C

hmmmm... we could steal card:Nissa's Chosen or Joraga Bard , or take Electropotence for ourself. The latter just doesn't seem suited for draft decks - but I definitly don't want to see a 3-toughness creature show up in our opponent's field, or possibly worse, another ally to break us out of an impass.

So I'm thinking we'll have to hate on the allies, not the new-and-improved Elvish Warrior . There have been other decent allies floating around, and I totally won my first zendikar draft with allies, so I'm going to vote for Joraga Bard . Murasa Pyromancer is kind of scary too, but only kind of, and like Electropotence , only waaay later in the game.

Also, 'audible?' That usage is a complete non-sequitur to me. Is that crazy magic slang?

After rethinking i still believe hating either isnt going to mean a great deal, and oran-reif survivalist is a staple card anyways for green even if the not going allies.

But yeah im seeing why electropotence isnt going to help in this situation, but im not convinced that hating a card is better than picking it.

But i dont want to see a nissa deck so im gonna change my pick to card:Nissa's Chosen

I am voting Seismic Shudder . It's good to drop creatures within trading range.

"Audible" = changing up the whole idea of your deck in the middle of the draft. From American football, where an "audible" changes the play being run before the ball is snapped.

huh. crazy.

As the vote seems to have turned against Electropotence , I think I'll play devils advocate.

Seismic Shudder is a reasonably good card, and this isn't a stellar pack after green and the kill cards are gone, but no one's taken it. If no one else is playing red (that geopode hung around a long time) then we have a good chance of grabbing the 2 Zektar Shrine Expedition s, which are amazing with Electropotence in play. That turn 3 expenditure is cool if it gets an additional 7 damage in their face.

So I vote Electropotence because I know you aren't going to pick it and I can be smug when the Zektars come around again.

Also that should be "devil's advocate"

There was a problem with my brain where I thought I was advocating several devils...

i say hate draft the chosen

-sigh-, There goes Mr. Seastalkers.

I guess Im gonna vote for Seismic Shudder , can come in handy.

Seismic Shudder , easy. We can take out those allies should they spring up.

the Electropotence and Seismic Shudder are not going to make maindeck and are most likely not going to be worth siding in. so now it's time to get away from drafting for your deck and sideboard and go to hate drafting. the ONLY time you hate draft is if there is nothing relivant for your deck and sideboard in a pack and this is the case. so you hate draft the best card in the pack wich is card:Nissa's Chosen. you dont pass a 10th pick card:Nissa's Chosen. and if we go away from blue card:Nissa's Chosen is a good playable green card.

Hate draft the card:Nissa's Chosen. The red in this pack just isn't worth it.

I've got to go with Electropotence here. We've got a good possibility of 2 shrines coming back around, and we've got no less than two Living Tsunami to offset the late-game problem of shrine activation. Call me a sucker, but I'm drawn to combo-ing off with it.

Also: Having read the gatherer rulings on Electropotence make me like it even more as a mind game enabler.

card:Nissa's Chosen gets my vote. It is a nice cheap card that has the potential to keep showing up if we get some deck shuffle going on.

Nissa Chosen also gets my vote.

We've got good removal already and Shudder won't have a chance to make the final deck. Electropotence looks fun, but I don't think we'll have the mana to spare for it nor will it go off often enough to be useful. Nissa with a Spidersilk Net has frustrated me a number of times in draft.

arg, card:Nissa's Chosen is actually almost convincing me to change my mind... it's good in general for green, whereas the Joraga Bard is only good for (likely multicolour) allies...

... but Seismic Shudder does 1 to everything including our own creatures. We've got two creature we would lose to that. Just for reference, there are 58 1-toughness creatures (counting ones like allies that gain additional toughness immediately on entering the battlefield) - soooo take that however you want.

and wow, Wizards' errata on Electropotence IS pretty nifty... makes me sort of reconsider its use in constructed.

if the card was good the pros would have used it by now. they haven't, its a bad card.

sarcasm, right? : it was only released 6 months or so ago. And just think of the Eldrazi.

That's not the right way of thinking at all, there are plenty of combinations people just don't see or aren't willing to test. That's why Conley Woods wins with card like Mold Shambler .

card:Nissa's Chosen

Electropotence ability isn't bad. the card is bad because it costs 3 to activate it. Zektar Shrine Expedition is the only card that would be decent with it and you can only activate it on 5th turn at best in limited and activate Electropotence with it. Electropotence wont be played in any other format because it costs 3 to cast and 3 to activate. and as for the eldrazi, you have to add 2R to the casting cost of the eldrazi to get this damage ability and the casting cost for the good ones are steep enough already. i personally don't want to wait around to get 3 extra mana with these huge creatures i want to cast them the instant i get the mana to do so.

Electropotence is probably playable Tier 2 standard. I'll pick some copies up this week and try and throw a deck together, maybe run it at FNM.

But let me make a case for it at least for draft: The way the ruling is worded you play the creature, and Electropotence 's ability goes on the stack. Thats their only chance to respond. You choose pay the mana upon it's resolution to actually deal the damage.

The utility comes of this: They either use their Brave the Elements or card:Harm's Way or whatever combat trick they have up their sleeve (Knight of the Reliquary Walking Atlas shenanigans) and then you just choose to pay nothing, having wasted their trick OR they call your bluff, and you go ahead and nuke your target.

also: Serious deja vu here, has this arguement been made for this card before on TO?

Looking at this from a builder's perspective, I would suggest taking card:Nissa's Chosen. But, judging from what the guy next to us would be thinking, taking Electropotence wouldnt be a bad idea. Also, looking at how bosheck imagines the card being played, I like it. My vote goes for Electropotence . Never thought I'd say that...

There are bound to be other green allies coming. If we're going to start hate-drafting allies, I'd hate cards like Kazandu Blademaster , Graypelt Hunter , or even Tajuru Archer . Let him/her have the Joraga Bard . It's a pretty lame ally and tossing a bone their way keeps them in a predictable drafting pattern.

I've never given Electropotence a second glance before this. Using it to flush out defensive spells ups its stock, IMO. I don't see anything better, so Electropotence it is.

Here's my thinking re: Electropotence-

1- The only way it's even marginally useful is if you have all of the following

a- A creature card with decent power coming in.

b- 2R open.

c- Nothing BETTER to do with that 2R.

These all coming together at once is unlikely.

So far, the only creature we've got that's half-worth picking up an EP for is Living Tsunami , and that's hardly stellar. EP does combo well with Zektar Shrine Expedition , but I sincerely doubt we'll see those Zektars again- they are prime hate draft targets, given the other crap that was in the packs with them.

In short, I think we can find better cards to put in our deck than Electropotence, and better things to do with our mana.

re: card:Nissa's Chosen v. Joraga Bard - Joraga Bard isn't the best ally, to be sure. But he IS still an ally, and every ally that people pick up in an ally deck is cash money to them. It's not Joraga Bard's ability that makes him dangerous, it's the fact that he'll also give Oran-Rief Survivalist and Kazandu Blademaster +1/+1, etc. etc.

-C

Krazy - with regards to post 36 i think you are selling the likelihood of ever using electropence's ability short. I am not saying that he is going to win the game for you single handedly, admittedly he would combo well with the shrine but even with out that combo,how often have you run into the situation where you just have extra mana but little or nothing to cast with it, due to colors not matching up or just not enough for a bigger card? So what if you burn 3 mana to do 1 or 2 damage... it is 1 or 2 more damage than you would have done otherwise, and if you really can fish out counter and defensive spells with it, then why not make your opponent sweat it.

You are right it is no more than situationally useful, but many cards are like that, and there is potential here for it to be a solid combo depending on what we draft later, but even if we don't get anything amazing still be useful. Worst case scenario it just sits on the board until you need it or can use it. What if we get a late game plated geoped why not spend 3 more for that 1 dmg to target player? It isn't like you were going to do anything with those 3 mana any how. Plinking away with low cost to cast creatures at an opponents life points should not be underrated as a strategy, and if we can get lots of mana or lopsided creatures then it can even be viable late game. We have no idea what we may get in the next several rounds that might make this card even more useful.

I guess it is your premise A that I am arguing most strongly against. Big or small as long as you have 2R available why not spend it to gain a benefit.

@deckbuilder -

I'm not saying the card has NO value, as you say, it is possible to plink with it, etc.

My idea is that this value is so low that we might consider whether we'd be better off damaging an opponent's deck by seizing one of the two good green cards instead. Indeed; assuming that there's a bit of good red cards in the next two packs, then I don't think Electropotence will even make it into our final deck.

We missed both Zektar Shrine which make the Electropotence good. I say hate the 2 drop that doesn't die to burst. card:Nissa's Chosen.

I'd go for the shudder. Electropotence could be handy, but I don't feel that we'd have the ability to use it to its best potential, and a little more removal never hurts. And the others are only good as hate picks.

As far as not seeing the shrines, the first has a Ruinous Minotaur with it, and the second a Shatterskull Giant . I'd say it's more likely thoes got picked up, as they're pretty solid bodies. I'll bet those shrines table.

@ KC I agree there's equal reason to hate Joraga Bard as the chosen, I just prefer taking the chosen in the off chance Green is just crazy open in Pack 2. I'm not sold on playing Blue right now and I can see playing R/G with a splash of white for journey.

i mean another arguement for electropotence would be that a burst lightning that started in the pack next to us went all the way around the draft without getting picked. Burst lghtning which is one of if not the best commons in zendikar meaning no one is playing red seriosly. Therefore most likly both shrines are on there way to us