"dies" trigger and timing
Asked by goldlion 3 years ago
I always had thought that for something to die, it has to hit the graveyard.
So, would that mean if a Forest was turned creature from Life and Limb, it would not trigger Nightmare Shepherd when it "died" cause it would no longer be a creature when it hits the graveyard? I feel like I'm missing a step.
Tylord2894 says... Accepted answer #2
That is exactly how it works. Effects like those of Nightmare Shepherd only card about when a creature leaves the battlefield, even if that creature is out temporarily a creature or if that creature wouldn't be a creature card in the graveyard.
While most cards are worded in a way that makes sense most of the time, sometimes the wording can get in the way. Nightmare Shepherd is a prime example of this. This effect references the creature that dies is two places. The first is where it's looking for a creature to die. Simple enough. The second, though, references "that creature" once it's in the graveyard. This is still referencing to the creature that died, even if it isn't a creature in the graveyard.
Here's an example, I have animated a Shambling Vent. My opponent casts Murder killing my Vent, which triggers my Nightmare Shepherd. I can still exile my Vent. I get a token copy of that land. Now, here's where things get a little strange. The copy of the animated land is not a creature. Rather, it is just a token copy of Shambling Vent. It still has all the abilities of the original Vent.
Hope this helps!! I can give a more technical answer if you'd like, but there are a fair number of moving parts with questions around Nightmare Shepherd, so I don't want to over explain it.
April 30, 2020 12:12 a.m.
That's great, thanks alot PitaGryphon and Tylord2894. I also appreciate the text breakdown.
Trying to make a jank EDH work with Life and Limb, then cards like Remembrance, Nightmare Shepherd, and Luminous Broodmoth and wins like Throne of the God-Pharaoh.
Great to hear it can be pulled off, even if only theoretically :)
April 30, 2020 12:45 a.m. Edited.
Bold strategy. You might also be interested in Kormus Bell and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
May 1, 2020 7:32 a.m.
May 1, 2020 11:45 a.m.
Tylord2894 says... #6
Depending on the budget, you can run Living Plane, but Living Lands and Nature's Revolt are also good.
May 1, 2020 12:42 p.m.
ohhhh, excellent ideas!
Thanks folks. It'll be jank central, but I think we can make it work.
Here it is so far, with ideas added.
May 1, 2020 2:15 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
goldlion: If you've received a satisfactory answer to your question, please choose one to mark as the accepted answer (using the green "Mark an Answer" button on the chosen post) so that this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions.
PitaGryphon says... #1
it would still trigger Nightmare Shepherd. "dying" just means "sent to the graveyard from the battlefield", and is not limited to creatures. even if it was, the card was still a creature when it was on the field, and thats what matters.
April 30, 2020 12:12 a.m.