Why don't Olivia Voldaren players run Horobi, Death's Wail? (In their Olivia decks)
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Aug. 21, 2015, 11:40 a.m. by alecm
I mean, maybe they do, but I've never encountered it, and a did a quick search of Olivia decks here on T/O and it wasn't in any of them.
It's not amazing, but it seems like a pretty solid addition, like another Basilisk Collar. And it's not like he'd be hard to get rid of if you ever needed to suddenly have him gone. If any Olivia players out there could explain to me why this guy isn't worth running, I'd appreciate it.
Probably due to her second ability to gain control of a vampire. I don't play her so I can't say for certain, but that is my best guess.
August 21, 2015 11:48 a.m.
Olivia Voldaren is superior in many ways. Her ping ability is extremely powerful. Two mana to deal 1 damage to any creature, turn it into a vampire, and put a +1/+1 counter on Olivia is a lot of things for just two mana. You're probably able to ping at least twice the turn after Olivia hits the field. It's worth your mana, because it's pure gain. You spend zero cards in hand to make your flying creature bigger, and to kill your opponent's creatures. The gaining control of vampires is mostly irrelevant in terms of the true quality of Olivia. While it does happen sometimes, and it's pretty strong when it does, it's a total investment of 11 mana to take a creature in this way. Unless the game has gone very late, there's usually a different line of play available for the use of all of that mana. Instead of spending five to attempt to gain control of a creature, you could just continue to pump Olivia two times for one less mana, making her go up to a 6/6 or 7/7~ flying while killing your opponent's creatures, leaving that one mana back for a slew of cards like Lightning Bolt, Murderous Cut ect. Much like Huntmaster of the Fells Flip, Olivia simply threatens to completely take over the game.
Horobi, Death's Wail dies to any targeted spell, and makes all of your other creatures die to any targeted spell. I could see possibly trying this in a homebrew with Flame Jab and Life from the Loam. Maybe give your Horobi hexproof or something.
Now imagine a scenario between a player with a Horobi and a player with Olivia versing each other. What happens? Olivia uses her ability to do 1 damage to Horobi, which by Horobi's own ability, kills it. Throughout the game, Olivia has the potential to become much bigger than the 4/4 flying body of Horobi, representing a faster clock.
August 21, 2015 12:12 p.m.
-Logician, I think you misunderstood. He's asking why those with Olivia as their general don't also run Horobi somewhere in the 99 because he turns her first ability into a straight kill.
August 21, 2015 12:24 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #6
Hmm that's decent. And I'm brewing Olivia atm as well. Horobi might end up making its way in.
August 21, 2015 12:28 p.m.
Ah, sorry I wasn't clear. Jay has it right, I was just wondering why Horobi in Olivia decks. There's no doubting that Olivia has better potential as a General than Horobi, I didn't mean to question that or anything
August 21, 2015 12:48 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #8
Why do that when there are at least 4 equips that give deathtouch? Then there's stuff like Sword of Kaldra which will exile everything
August 21, 2015 12:52 p.m.
Ohthenoises Ok, so it's just a matter of there being other cards that provide similar(better) utility, then? Basilisk Collar was the only thing I could think of that could turn Olivia into a machine gun, and I figured Olivia players would gladly welcome another card that provides a similar effect.
However, Horobi obviously has drawbacks, and if there are other cards that provide the same effect with less drawbacks, then of course Olivia players run them instead.
August 21, 2015 1 p.m.
Sword of Kaldra is just nasty with Liv. I always thought it said combat damage... jeezus.
August 21, 2015 1:09 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #11
Gorgon Flail, Gorgon's Head, and Quietus Spike and that's just the deathtouch stuff.
August 21, 2015 1:15 p.m.
Personally, I wouldn't run Horobi because I'd rather not let my opponents' spells and abilities kill my creatures just as easily.
August 21, 2015 4:21 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #13
Horobi also prevents the ability from resolving, so Olivia doesn't get the counter, which is potentially quite relevant.
August 21, 2015 9:15 p.m.
Better to steal your opponent's commander than kill it.
NoPantsParade says... #2
It can also be the target of something and get killed like that. It's kind of like a double-edged sword, I suppose. I don't think it's worth the risk, unless you can give Olivia indestructibility.
August 21, 2015 11:47 a.m.