Rules of thumb for Commander?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on July 15, 2015, 2:37 p.m. by Apoptosis
I'm relatively new to Commander and am adjusting to the format in terms of generic "rules of thumb". I know all of the principles in deck design: flexibility, resiliency, consistency, etc, as well as the concepts: e.g. card advantage, denial, combos, synergies, and so forth.
But what I have is little experience with commander deck design, so I'm looking for are the most generic "rules of thumb" in deck design, and then obviously deviate from there. Basically, I need a reference point.
For instance, number of lands. From what I've found it seems like 37 lands is a good starting point.
Mana rocks: These seem much more common here. How much acceleration in a non-green deck? I have a fair collection.
Creatures. I realize that "aggro strategies" don't generally work with the higher life counts and the tendency is therefore to run higher CMC, bigger impact creatures. As well it's obvious that deck strategy will dictate the specifics, but are there any rules of thumb here? For instance in standard, if you're playing agro you want 30+ creatures.
Wraths. Seem to be common to run at least a few and the ability to swing the battlefield is obvious.
Spot removal. This is a sticky point for me. In standard, I frequently will often run 9+ pieces of spot removal to give me flexibility in dealing with threats, but with the higher life totals and more players, my initial impression is that spot removal isn't as crucial in the format. Rather, it seems like enchantments/equipment/artifacts that help your board state are more important to stress. Unless you're running a straight-forward battle-cruiser type deck where you want to pound face and get things out of your way.
Planeswalkers. My initial thought was that these would be even more prevalent, but after a little reading my impression is that they have less impact in this format.
Synergies/themes/combos. Much more important to build around.
Looking forward to the feedback, thanks!
ABadMagicPlayer100 says... #3
Unlike Tibs, I don't play a lot of commander. However, I can verify a lot of what she says. Building a commander deck is super flexible. My current project is a synergy/combo deck. The deck is very few creatures, and it devotes itself almost completely to the combo, with the main exception being removal (between 15 and 20 spot removal cards, and about 5 sweepers). For me, building a commander deck is very challenging because it is deck-dependent.
Some resources for deck building (courtesy of Epoch): List of EDH Staples and Power Cards, List of Budget EDH Staples and Power Cards.
My current project, for an atypical view of commander deck building: Grenzo, Big Demon Boss Man (Community-built Deck)
July 15, 2015 3:07 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #4
I run 33-39 lands depending on the average cmc, amount of ramp in the deck, and cost of my commander.
Ramp is very important in the format, and I try to run at least 5 mana rocks, and usually closer to 10 if the deck needs the ramp/fixing and ability to cast higher cost stuff. It also depends on the rocks you are using. Stuff like Coalition Relic and Worn Powerstone obviously offer more advantage than stuff like Darksteel Ingot when it comes to ramping potential, and thus you may not need to run as many rocks if the ones you do have produce more.
Theres not really any rule of thumb(by the way, the term 'rule of thumb' refers to an old law that says you cannot beat your wife with a stick thicker than your thumb) for the number of creatures your deck should run. It really depends on the Commander and deck strategy. Zur runs no creatures while Ruric almost only runs creatures for example.
Removal is also incredibly important in the format, as there is going to be multiple players often, which means more threats getting dropped that need removing. Although there is a lot of debate of if single target removal is on par with multi-target, I personally am on the side of multi-target removal. Disenchant can go home, Ill take a Hull Breach any day. Again removal may be important, but it depends on the deck aswell. If your going to win so fast your opponent wont have time to cast problem cards for you, then you can probably get away with less.
And of course all the above numbers would change if your deck carries a significant amount of draw ability.
July 15, 2015 3:20 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #5
The big challenges generally come from thinking at the scales involved, and handling multiplayer. It also varies widely with how intense the competition is at your venue; there's a lot of variation with that I find.
You typically have three opponents with twice the life totals and deck sizes than other formats. That requires a different scale of operations for most decks. You do need big, impactful creatures, at least in terms of effect if not in terms of cost. Games are often long; you need to be able to recover or draw more resources before you burn out.
Because of the deck sizes and singleton format, tutors are extremely strong. More reliable decks tend to run several. My more casual decks, if you look at my profile, rarely run more than 1 or 2, which I think is pretty low.
Lands vary a lot. I think 37-38 is a good baseline but have used 35-40 at various times. Mana rocks are very useful in non-green colors (remember though that white has some land tutors too), but over-relying on a single card type without support is risky - your mana rocks can get wiped by Vandalblast or whatever.
And board wipes are frequent. All kinds, not just Wrath of God. Lots of decks will use 2-3 as a baseline; some players bring more to the table. You need both to include a few yourself and be ready to deal with them. The sort of impact on you and your plans for dealing with them will vary wildly depending on your deck of course.
Graveyard hate can be important. Lots of decks run heavy recursion to endure the long games, or just plain run right out of the graveyard.
You need to be able to deal with indestructible creatures (Avacyn, Angel of Hope). If you have more than one color, try to have at least some removal in each color if plausible (Iona, Shield of Emeria! argh!).
Playing the game - need to watch the board carefully. Understand what each opponent is trying to do and evaluate who the threats are. You can't possibly remove every single potential threat in multiplayer unless you have some kind of lock, so you need to prioritize.
Hope that stuff helps a bit?
July 15, 2015 5:30 p.m.
Epoch's Building an edh deck - is a good resource for info also.
Like what has been said before, the "rule of thumb" for EDH deck depends on what kind of deck you want to play. But here are some generalizations that I can mention (some of these have been mentioned.)
Repeatable effect over one time effects.
Recursion is good.
Ways to wipe the board if you need to are required.
Some targeted(spot) removal can be used in some decks for problem creatures(sometimes exiling an It That Betrays is better than just wiping the board if you currently have a good board state.
Ways to disrupt combos that require artifacts/enchantments are needed in groups that like to run infinite combos(some combos are harder to interrupt than others.)
Versatility is key, Maelstrom Pulse over Putrefy over Doom Blade
Exiling is usually better than killing, unless you have use for their dead things.
37 lands is a good starting point, then customize it to fit the deck based on casing cost and available ramp.
Creature count depends on how dependent you are on creatures to achieve the goal of the deck. Some commanders lend themselves to more/less creatures in the build, but 20-30 is what I see most of the time. My decks run from 16-31. I don't play creature-less decks. (all decks on my profile are real life decks I play with.)
And "aggro decks" in edh tend to be more massive amounts of creatures (such as token), or voltron type decks. And these decks tend to lose efficiency with more players.
All the above is just my opinion.
July 15, 2015 7:02 p.m.
Thanks for all of the advice everyone, really helpful!
-Apop.
ThisIsBullshit says... #2
A lot of it really depends on the deck. Mana rocks are usually 3-10, depending on how much mana you need.
Planeswalkers are super deck dependent. A lot of fast decks don't run them, but a lot of controlling types do.
I run a lot of spot removal in the decks that need it (10-15 pieces) and a couple of field wipes (3-5).
Creatures are also super deck dependent.
It's what makes Commander so much fun, there's no rules or archetypes to follow.
July 15, 2015 2:49 p.m.