Hi ive been running the version from the first deck tech video and love it. I dont have the most competitive meta but the hold their own, theyre more creature combat oriented than anything else and so i was wondering if cutting flusterstorm and pact for languish and damnation due to a lack of combo were good choices?

Another question there isnt much graveyard hate if any at all in my meta so i was wondering if how you'd incorporate the reanimator package in or is scepter to good?

Hi ive been running the version from the first deck tech video and love it. I dont have the most competitive meta but the hold their own, theyre more creature combat oriented than anything else and so i was wondering if cutting flusterstorm and pact for languish and damnation due to a lack of combo were good choices?

Another question there isnt much graveyard hate if any at all in my meta so i was wondering if how you'd incorporate the reanimator package in or is scepter to good?

asdxstjohn21 - What type of creatures are you facing? If -3/-3 will do the job, I'd focus on Yahenni's Expertise over Damnation as it lets you keep Tasigur around. It and Languish are really strong for this reason. I switched to scepter as the meta sped up notably after the Hulk unbanning. Not having to wait for 7 lands in play to combo with PI + Palinchron is a huge speed increase.

Reanimator is a high risk, high reward route. If there isn't graveyard hate, I'd give it a run as it is a really fun to play route.

Yeah im gonna test that one out thank you. Also what about search for azcanta or rhystic study. And if my meta is slower is natures lore and three visits worth it or do you prefer the artifact ramp that doesnt end up in the grave. I just thought that cabal coffers would be worth the land ramp.

how does Manifold Insights work out on average? Giving your oppenents the choice always felt a bit awkward to me. I am also curious if you would run the counter top pair if the CMC of your meta is a little more scattered?

I love the deck, a well-earned +1

I'm currently interested in making a Tasigur myself. However, not only am I on a budget (relatively so; if a card is under 20$ I either have it or can get it, especially if it's blue, and I would invest in anything below 50$ over time if it's worth it), but my meta is more creature-heavy. A bit more serious than 75% decks, most of us have shock/fetch based manabases and tutorable combo wincons. Wins before t7-8 are a rare occurence and sometimes, if we counter out eachother, it gets down to combat dmg. However it's nowhere near as fast, tuned or consistent as cEDH. Casual/75% decks would have slim chances of winning in my group, while a cEDH deck would outrun us all probably.

My concern is that, as you yourself have stated in the deck tech, your build would have problems in such meta. So what would you suggest in my case? Should I play more removal? More prison-ish effects? Or do I try to beat them at their own game and just turn to reanimator strategy?

Thank you in advance!

Why play Viscera Seer? From what I can tell, all it does is sac Protean Hulk if you drew it naturally and you had nothing else to do other than cast it? Maybe I'm missing something.

KillDatBUG

It's a part of the most effective Protean hulk in both Golgari and Sultai:

Hulk -> Viscera Seer and Phyrexian Delver or Body Double (any one of these two can get Hulk back on the field)

Viscera Seer sacrifices Hulk -> Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Walking Ballista.

Now you have infinite ping combo with Mikaeus, VSeer and Ballista.

JohnnyCRO

But why would you want to do that instead of just grabbing Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Walking Ballista?

KillDatBUG

Read Mikaeus, the Unhallowed's third ability. You need a sac outlet for it to work with Walking Ballista correctly.

KillDatBUG

Mikaeus + Ballista combo requires a sac outlet:

Ballista neters as 1/1 because of Mikaeuses buff and it has no way of killing itself. A sac outlet sacrifices ballista and its undying triggers. Ballista returns as a 1/1 with a +1/+1 counter (2/2). Ballista uses its counter to deal 1 dmg to anything. Sac outlet sacrifices it again and since Balliste lost its +1/+1 counter undying triggers again and you can do this infinite number of times.

Adding Viscera Seer (Carrion Feeder is also an option, a strictly worse one at that but an option still) is a way of establishing a sac outlet while assembling Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Walking Ballista combo. If you already have a sac outlet, of course you go for Mikaeus and Ballista right away. But:

a) this makes Hulk more compact (and hence more reliable), since it doesn't rely on any other cards being on the battlefield. Instead of 2-card combo you have to tutor for, you only have to tutor for a single creature that has to die somehow (usually by your own effect, Necromancy and Flash being 2 great examples).

b) Sac outlets can be interacted with more easily than with a Hulk. Without a way to establish sac outlet while assembling a combo, the easiest way to stop Hulk combo from ging off is to disable sac outlet in question, and answers to those are more versatile than answers for Hulk itself

Tl;dr: the combo requires a sac outlet and the addition of Viscera Seer/Body Double/Phyrexian Delver makes combo a bit more resilient and far easier to execute.

P.S.

Since you mentioned going around combo pieces stuck in your hand in your First question, you might be itnerested in Body Snatcher. Not unlike Delver/Double addition for V.Seer, it opens up possibility of extending the hulk combo and dedicate more space to it in order to make it work even if some of the cards you want in your deck get stuck in your hand. Again, as it's easily tutorable with Hulk itself during the combo execution, it's an elegant solution to the problem (Hulk dies -> Body snatcher (discards Mikaeus)+ VSeer + mana dork, VSeer sacrifices Body snatcher -> Hulk reanimation, VSeer sacrifices Hulk -> Ballista and PDelver/BDouble (any of these revives/immitetes Mikaeus)).

But Walking Ballista does kill itself though, if you remove all the counters. Because if you go through the line:

1. Put Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Walking Ballista into play. Ballista dies to state-based effects and undying's back into play with one +1/+1 counter.

2. Remove the one counter from Ballista to ping an opponent.

3. Ballista dies. Mike sees that Ballista died with no +1/+1 counters on it and returns it to the battlefield with a counter.

4. Repeat for infinite damage.

So you don't need the sac outlet to combo.

KillDatBUG

Read the card again. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed makes Walking Ballista a 1/1 with his third ability. It will not die to state-based effects. The combo requires a free sac outlet since Ballista does not come into play with counters like Triskelion does to kill itself.

Oh fuck... Forgot Mike gives your non-humans +1/+1. Awkward...

Nevermind what I said then.

Can you elaborate on some of the new choices?- Copy Artifact- Engineered Explosives- Body Snatcher (not showing in your list)

As per some of the removals:- As Foretold: did you not like it? Under efficient?- Consecrated Sphinx: same here? Too slow maybe?- Dark Confidant?- Entomb: would'nt it be good to get access to hulk faster?

Cheers

Necromancy seems pretty solid though with Hulk,

Do you get enough value out of Training Grounds?

knight611 - Manifold Insights works out to be approximately 2U: get Tasigur activations equal to the number of opponents you have, for these activations assume you have an empty graveyard. People have competing priorities so you get a mix of things that are good against the field.

JohnnyCRO - Adding in more board control is the big thing when dealing with lower powered metas. The big thing is that you will have to tailor your control suite to match what you are facing. More combo? More counters and stack interaction. More Combat? More board clears and spot removal.

KillDatBUG - Sorry for the delay in answering you, seems others were able to help. I'm in process of moving and this has been something I've been meaning to check but haven't had internet at home yet.

Maelstrom. - Copy Artifact was an alternative out if Tasigur was unavailable. It was also decent value for the majority of times it saw play. If it copies an Isochron Scepter with Dramatic Scepter, it can do things like infinite Swans for aggro, mill with Reality Shift, etc.
As Foretold was removed due to speed, Breakfast Hulk just sped up the game too much. In a high stax meta its great, currently it is not around long enough to get any value for us. C-Sphinx was removed for the Hulk package. I am working on phasing the Hulk package out and putting Nezahal, Primal Tide in the C-Sphinx spot. It looks to be better all around.
Dark Confidant - cut for space, possibly going back in.
Entomb - Without a solid reanimation plan, entomb isn't great.
Necromancy - Again without a solid reanimation plan, Necromancy isn't great, it can work with Hulk but that is about it for the deck. It would mean keeping entomb in the deck or having another way to discard Hulk regularly.

Abysswalker- & JohnnyCRO Thanks for helping with questions while I was not responding.

Thanks LabManiac_Cameron.

I don't have as many games as you with this list so here are a few more questions:

• Mana Vault/Grim Monolith: infinite mana with Isochron/Dramatic reversal, faster Tasigur (is that any worth to have him earlier?)

• Mind Stone: additional rock for Dramatic Reversal, potential target for Seasons Past for card draw

• Chrome Mox?

• Why Engineered Explosives: in what situation has it been good?

• Since Palinchron is gone, is Phantasmal Image still really valuable?

• How about Scroll Rack? Would interact well with Counterbalance, can protect card in your hand, somehow synergises with Tasigur

• Is Training Ground that good? I mean, with infinite mana, do we still get value out of it?

• I am using Capsize in my list for alternate wincon

LabManiac_Cameron Cant wait to see ur decklist without Hulk package and with Nezahal, Primal Tide in the C-Sphinx spot. I really dislike the hulk meta :/ .... Do u consider to bring back the reanimate package or something new?? Also i am a bit more of a fun of the Palinchron/Phantasmal win con, but this is more of a personal pref.

Maelstrom. - The colorless mana rocks are just that colorless, they get you tasigur but almost nothing else. They get you infinite mana with Dramatic scepter but infinite colorless does not get us a win. Same with Mind Stone.

EE is a tech choice, its that or Pernicious deed. EE is more selective and can be a selective board wipe that doesn't hit all our stuff. Pernicious deed usually is as symmetric of a board wipe as there is and it can hurt us just as much to pop it.

Chrome Mox removes a card for forever, we don't like that.

PI is a meta value choice. its a flex spot put in what you think would be worthwhile for your meta.

Scroll rack is meh, I can see it being good but I think a more proactive card would be better.

Training Ground is great if we are not going infinite. It makes having a Tasigur activation up while still leaving mana up for interaction a normal thing. As an on plan mana accelerator it usually nets 5+ mana each time it gets out by reducing the cost of Tasigur activations.

I had capsize in a while ago, it got pulled for speed reasons. As an alternative Wincon its ok.

zaikel - its in process.

• Mana Rock: yeah, I was just thinking that it helps getting expensive stuff out faster too (Rocks, Muse, Rift, Omniscience, Seasons Past), I may give one a try to see how it performs, but yeah, it's colorless

• I was thinking as Mindstone as a draw engine once we go infinite

I think I'll stick to the Palinchron version, I like it better, been a long time favorite :PLooking forward to see what you do with Nezahar.

Hi Cameron,Thanks for the sweet primer! I'm relatively new to cEDH so I apologize in advance if this is a silly question. What spells do you use to loop out storm counts for Aetherflux Resevoir? I understand that Palinchron/Phantasmal Image are infinite cast triggers, but what is the current case now that the duo have been replaced with Dramatic Scepter? Thanks in advance!

Just want to say thank you for the primer section on threat assessment. After reading this and than looking at what I currently have in my decks this has proved to be a very valuable piece of tactics that I will be using as my adventure in edh continues. Thank you for the great contwnt, you time and work is greatly appriciated.

izzuedotcom - For infinite with Reserviour? You can do Dramatic Scepter. For late game, there is a good change you can manually storm with enough mana and a Yawgmoth's Will.

Smurblefin - Glad the section helped you out. Best of luck in applying it to your future games. Its a continuing learning adventure.

LabManiac_Cameron- love the deck man I've been testing it out for a couple of weeks now. I have a question about the hulk combo. It feels kinda clunky to me, I like when I can win on turn two, but it just feels weird otherwise. Have you had this experience? The last deck I built for cedh was Rashmi control and I know that it's a different play style then this but I can't seem to figure out how to run the deck smoothly. Any suggestions?