Manifold Insights

Legality

Format Legality
Pre-release Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Magic Duels Legal
Vintage Legal
Pauper Legal
Leviathan Legal
Legacy Legal
1v1 Commander Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal

Printings View all

Set Rarity
Commander 2016 (C16) Rare

Combos Browse all

Manifold Insights

Sorcery

Reveal the top ten cards of your library. Starting with the next opponent in turn order, each opponent chooses a different nonland card from among them. Put the chosen cards into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.

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Manifold Insights Discussion

ToshiroU on [Obey] - Competitive Control

1 month ago

Hey guys!

I didn't check on this site for quite some time - now i'd like to respond and comment on your list, deadmanwaltzing, cause I also did some playtesting and changes to mine. I'll create a deck soon to also show you my current list.

Last time I asked a lot of questions regarding some cardchoices. Maybe you didn't feel like answering to all of these, so this time I'm gonna just outline the cardchoices that are different in my list from yours. Also, I'd like to tell you that I agree with most of your decisions regarding your development of a competitive Arbiter-List and that I respect you as the more experienced player in this regard.

I started playing EDH about a year ago in a quite competitive playgroup (General Tazri, Teferi, Derevi, Prosh, meanwhile also a Thrasios/Tymna list, a Keranos, a Rashmi and a Kaho which is very fun to play against). Starting with Brago I shifted to GAA4 because it felt like my Brago was always a bit slow in comparism to the others at the table... With GAA4 everyone is frowning at your Commander, hoping that it doesn't come down in T1-2 :) also I do like the control-playstyle and the interaction it provides.

Well, the different cardchoices in my list are:

  1. Gitaxian Probe
  2. Spell Pierce | I don't run Flusterstorm
  3. Prismatic Lens
  4. Sphere of Resistance | I don't run Torpor Orb
  5. Reshape | Don't have Transmute Artifact yet
  6. Whir of Invention
  7. Blue Sun's Zenith | I don't run Sphinx's Revelation but not 100% sure
  8. Thirst for Knowledge | I don't run Manifold Insights
  9. Glen Elendra Archmage | Instead of Wrath of God because I feel like non-creature spells are a lot stronger and both the Yisan-Deck and the Derevi-Deck aren't present in my playgroup anymore
  10. Consecrated Sphinx still playtesting - current experiences: good in midrange- and, prism-matchups. Actually awfully slow in most games against combo or combo/control

Cards I don't run from your list are:

I currently think about how to get rid of Staff of Domination because it feels clunky lots of times when drawn to early and Sensei's Divining Top also does his job together with Scepter. I will playtest an Academy Ruins for the case that Top gets countered. Also Lotus Petal might be good in matchups like General Tazri and Thrasios/Tymna where they are quite slowed with Arbiter in play and you want fast mana as soon as possible...

Best regards!

Sgtpopnfreash on Kess: Herald of Bolas

1 month ago

Hey I've been playing Kess, Dissident Mage since she was released and I love her. Some simple changes you could make to your deck are as follows-
- Kess, Dissident Mage loves instants and sorceries more than creatures, she especially loves Tutors and "cantrip's" (spells that do an effect and then replace themselves) since she can cast them twice they become card advantage. You have many cheap options I would add Gitaxian Probe, Ponder, Preordain, Impulse, Opt and maybe Serum Visions and Brainstorm for cantrips and Gamble, Dark Petition possibly Merchant Scroll, Beseech the Queen and Mystical Tutor for tutors. The cantrips will also help you hit early land drops.
- Your mana curve is pretty scary for a deck with only 29 lands you need to take that down a bit or add more lands probably do both. Decks with 29 lands run all the cantrips and have a average CMC of around 2 not 3.5
- You have Windfall how about a Notion Thief? Its quite powerful when flashed in in response to someones draw spell.
- The dragon theme doesnt make any sense and is very counter intuitive to what your deck is trying to do. You should probably cut all the dragons and dragon related spells.
- My favorite win condition for Kess, Dissident Mage is using Aetherflux Reservoir and Isochron Scepter with Dramatic Reversal to cast infinite spells and gain infinite life. If you went that rout adding Fabricate, Muddle the Mixture maybe Shred Memory and Whir of Invention would probably be a good idea.
- I think you could also probably cut The Locust God, Skullclamp and Unstable Obelisk instead of those add Dimir Signet and hopefully Talisman of Indulgence, Talisman of Dominance and for draw add cards like Fact or Fiction, Manifold Insights or Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise. You can add Faithless Looting and Frantic Search to preload the graveyard to pay for the last two spells.
- Dark Petition, Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual are great mana producing spells for Kess, Dissident Mage
your counter magic suite is a little weak you probably want Chain of Vapor, Swan Song, Counterspell, Delay and Dispel along with Negate. take out any counterspell that cost more than 2 mana.
- Baral, Chief of Compliance is super good at reducing the cost of your spells as well. With him add Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast depending on meta.
- These changes will make you weaker to creatures run Reality Shift, Snap, Rapid Hybridization, Fire Covenant and Earthquake

knight611 on Tasigur Control Hulk

2 months ago

LabManiac_Cameron- First off love the deck. I really like the different lines of play that are available that also use very differnt methods so that you can just be hosed by graveyard removal or counter magic. I am curious about how well Counterbalance is working out? if the average cmc of decks you are against were to be a bit more scattered would you still run Counterbalance? If not what would you run in its place?How well does Manifold Insights work out on average?

Thank you for the back and forth I have had a hard time figuring out what else to do with my deck for a while now.

MagicalHacker on The Echo of Silence

2 months ago

Hey, I saw you are playing Manifold Insights, and I have been thinking about adding it to some of my decks, but I wanted to ask you:

  1. Is it good in general for blue decks?

  2. Is it good enough in spite of the fact that EDH won't always have 3 or more opponents? (Especially since not all players die simultaneously.)

  3. Is it good enough in spite of the fact that opponents can choose what you draw?

Thanks :)

MagicalHacker on Tasigur Seasons Past / Season Pastigur

2 months ago

Hey, I saw you are playing Manifold Insights, and I have been thinking about adding it to some of my decks, but I wanted to ask you:

  1. Is it good in general for blue decks?

  2. Is it good enough in spite of the fact that EDH won't always have 3 or more opponents? (Especially since not all players die simultaneously.)

  3. Is it good enough in spite of the fact that opponents can choose what you draw?

Thanks :)

MagicalHacker on Chain Veil Teferi

2 months ago

Hey, I saw you are playing Manifold Insights, and I have been thinking about adding it to some of my decks, but I wanted to ask you:

  1. Is it good in general for blue decks?

  2. Is it good enough in spite of the fact that EDH won't always have 3 or more opponents?

  3. Is it good enough in spite of the fact that opponents can choose what you draw?

Thanks :)

Gates88 on [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

3 months ago

sonnet666 I appreciate your response. I'll start off by saying that mentioning the obvious tier 1s (Thrasios, Zur, Tazri) was really just for completeness' sake. In hindsight, it was just a waste of time to mention them and I regret bringing it up.

You're also completely right about Mairsil, I just straight-up didn't do any research on the way that deck was going at all. The Mirror-Mad Phantasm line is great in a Doomsday shell and it's the main draw for it. The Razaketh line is a little bit more questionable since it requires creatures in play and Grixis has few creatures it actually wants to run and it can only be uses once a turn, but turning your commander into Diabolic Intent isn't bad by any means. I still think that Kess and Jeleva are clearly superior Grixis commanders though since they can have 99 cards that are gas and not dilute their deck at all. It's similar to Teferi vs Arcum Dagsson. Teferi runs a couple of bad cards or cards that aren't good for reasons other than The Chain Veil combo (Thran Dynamo, Gilded Lotus, and The Chain Veil itself would be useless without the rules interaction that allows for the combo), but Arcum runs a lot more bad cards because it needs to have artifact creatures to sacrifice and most artifact creatures suck. There's less of a difference between Kess/Jeleva and Mairsil than there is between Teferi and Arcum Dagsson in terms of number of different cards in each deck, but the principle is that Mairsil requires more build-around cards than the other Grixis generals and it hurts him overall. Regardless, I apologize for my ignorance and I think that tier 2 can be a valid placement for now.

I forgot that Razaketh was your pet deck. I won't bother arguing with you about it then.

I disagree about Karador. It's true that he reduces his own cost, but only if creatures are in the graveyard, which there will probably be few unless someone has wiped or you have Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman. In the latter case, you probably won't need Karador since you'll be able to tutor up Boonweaver Giant and a sac outlet (or whatever you're comboing with) relatively quickly anyway. It's true that he casts creatures from your graveyard, but only one per turn, so saying he effectively makes your graveyard your hand is a huge overexaggeration. Being able to cast creatures from the yard is also only useful if you have creatures in the yard, which is not too difficult to achieve but not always a common gamestate. Compare this to Tymna, who generates value at every stage of the game as long as you have creatures, and he looks much less favorable. The Abzan Boonweaver strategy has never really relied on the commander for anything but value, so the fact that Tymna can create more value more quickly than Karador speaks to her advantages and his weaknesses. If you won't put him in tier 3, consider at least moving him down to tier 2.5.

Everything I said about Teferi was in jest. In fact, I believe I even said later in my post that I was just joking around when I talked trash about Teferi. I don't post a lot on tappedout anymore so I don't blame people for not knowing, but I am a Teferi main and although I don't consider myself an expert, I know the deck pretty well. The Blood Pod matchup is probably Teferi's worst matchup (it's even worse than Ruric Thar, which is saying a lot), but it's not enough to keep him out of the top tiers.

Your suggestions for additions to Teferi are understandable but misguided. The primary reason that Paradox Engine and Dramatic Scepter aren't in Teferi is partially because the deck already has two and a half alternate win conditions - Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith is one, Power Artifact+Monolith is two, and Teferi+Stasis is almost a win condition - and doesn't need to dilute itself by running any more. All the cards I just mentioned are also good on their own - Monoliths for obvious reasons, Rings of Brighthearth for its ability to copy Teferi or Tezzeret's abilities, and Power Artifact for generating more mana while comboing with The Chain Veil. Neither Dramatic Reversal nor Isochron Scepter have utility on their own. Imprinting a Counterspell or a bounce spell on Isochron Scepter is a fine strategy in 1v1 (and I used to play Scepter Chant back in Mirrodin-era Extended, so I know how it feels), but it ultimately isn't good enough in the midgame to be worth running. Dramatic Reversal is effectively just a ritual and has very little utility outside of the combo. We already have access to a lot of good rituals, like Teferi for example, and we don't need another one that badly. Paradox Engine is too reliant on cards that are already in hand and costs 5 mana. Why would you tutor for a situationally relevant card that costs more to cast than The Chain Veil and is not a guaranteed combo? Furthermore, running these additional win conditions would require multiple cuts to either the manabase, card draw spells, counterspells, or bounce spells, which would weaken the deck in some other aspect. It's just not worth it to run these cards.

And just because Manifold Insights isn't as good as Lim-Dul's Vault doesn't mean it's trash. Being able to see 10 cards deep and getting 3 nonlands is a big deal, even if it's the three worst cards in that set. The fail state of Manifold Insights is either getting your 3 worst mana rocks or your 2 worst mana rocks and a counterspell that's not relevant (ex. Flusterstorm at a table full of creature-heavy decks). That's not great, but it's still 3 cards that will likely not be dead. The only major drawback to the card is its sorcery speed, which is unfortunate but ultimately not a dealbreaker. And obviously the card is unplayable with fewer than 3 opponents, but ideally that shouldn't happen.

Finally, do not under any circumstance go with a different decklist than what you have posted. Even though it does not match my personal list and I don't agree with every card choice in it (cough Expedition Map cough), the comprehensiveness of the primer section is encyclopedic, which makes it an excellent resource. It talks about primary combo lines, alternate lines, matchups, single card choices, and even budget alternatives. If you are already vaguely familiar with competitive EDH, you could become a somewhat competent Teferi player just by reading that primer and goldfishing a bit. Something drastic would need to happen in order for that primer to become irrelevant, on the scale of a major banning or maybe a change to the rules interaction between Teferi and The Chain Veil.

As far as Yidris goes, Jim has talked a lot on the discord about his deck and the gist of it is that Yidris is plan B. Plan A is jamming a turn 3 Ad Nauseam, which he aims to do as often as possible. That should give you an idea of how important Yidris actually is to the deck. His current list also still runs Mass Hysteria, so Concordant Crossroads could be a possible addition to improve it. I doubt Need for Speed would work well though, it overlaps with Rain of Filth too much and you'd rather sac your lands for mana than give your dorks haste in most circumstances.

I would argue that The Gitrog Monster can fight through counterspells more easily than Sidisi, Undead Vizier can because of cards like City of Solitude and Autumn's Veil, but you're right in that both decks are linear and somewhat fragile. Gitrog makes up for this by being able to clean up at really weird times, like their own cleanup step.

I think Tier 3 is solid for Atraxa. She has pubstomp written all over her, so it makes sense to put her in the pubstomp tier.

When I said that Dimir was a limited color identity, I meant in terms of what it can answer and how well it can answer it, specifically in regards to artifacts and enchantments. Black can't really interact with artifacts or enchantments at all, and blue only has bounce spells or counterspells. Hurkyl's Recall and other bounce spells are only temporary, and unless you can win the turn after a bounce through countermagic for sure, you will still be in danger of the problem card resolving the following turn again. Swan Song and other counterspells are reactive, which a combo deck really doesn't want to be. Compare this to Grixis, which has access to Vandalblast and By Force, or Esper, which has access to Disenchant and Detention Sphere (in Zur), or Sultai, which has access to every good card in the format, and Dimir looks worse by comparison.Even the creature removal isn't as diverse when it comes to wipes. Dimir only has Toxic Deluge while Esper has Supreme Verdict and Grixis has Rolling Earthquake and Fire Covenant. That's really the only weakness of the color identity, but it's not a trivial weakness and it does make Dimir combo worse than Esper/Grixis/Sultai/4 color combo.

As for your question on Baral, whether High Tide isn't strong or Baral is just bad, the answer is kind of both. Baral is a commander who gets outclassed by Jace in almost every way, and although he isn't weak by any means, Jace isn't outrageously strong to begin with.Jace can loot more consistently, can get more value in the midgame when cards have been binned, and can enable double Tide turns. Baral's cost reduction is nice, but that's about the only advantage he has over Jace. Blood Pod is also pretty brutal against Baral since all the win conditions either require Islands (making it weak to Choke) or artifacts (making it weak to Null Rod and Stony Silence).

sonnet666 on [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

3 months ago

Penguin_Gamer_1, You are completely correct.

All the other 2017 pre-cons had only 3 legends, and he was the only mono-color, so I guess he just slipped my mind.

I wouldn't say he's completely comboless, since I think he's probably the best commander for the old Darksteel Plate + Worldslayer lock. However that's not really cEDH worthy, so T4 is correct as well. I'll add him in.


Lilbrudder, We've listed enough reasons for demoting Prossh and enough people have agreed that I'm comfortable demoting him to T1.5. I'll put up that Blood Pod deck as well.


Gates88, If you're going to write us what is essentially a small essay, can you at least do us the courtesy of fact checking it like it's one?

  • Mairsil, the Pretender, The combo for Mairsil has already been figured out. Simply get Mirror-Mad Phantasm (or Razaketh) caged and you have an "I win" button for 5 mana or less. Since you're already running LabMan and cantrips Doomsday makes a fine plan B. Tier 2 is accurate for that strategy.

  • Razaketh, the Foulblooded, The deck I made for him goes off on turn 3 or 4 every game, and I haven't even improved it in over a month. If you think that Sidisi is going off 2 turns earlier than that you're insane.

  • Teferi, Temporal Archmage, I think a deck who's main combo wants you to run as many 2+ rocks as possible can get away with having a 6 mana commander, especially when that commander is going to refund you that mana the turn you play him. If anything, Teferi's gotten an upgrade recently, because Paradox Engine and Dramatic Scepter can be run excellently alongside his main strategy (so can HT+Candelabra, for that matter). The decklist we have up doesn't reflect this, while somehow having time for trash like Manifold Insights, so maybe it's time for us to get a new one. If the meta really has been stacked against Teferi strategically recently then we can consider demoting him, but I'm not demoting him just because he's unpopular right now, and I don't think he should be dropped below T1.5 if we do.

  • Karador, Ghost Chieftain, This is a 3 color, commander tax resistant commander, that turns your graveyard into your hand, generates value with any creature that puts itself in the graveyard, and has multiple win-on-the-spot combos that can be kicked off for as little as 3 mana. I'M NOT PUTTING HIM IN TIER 3.

Aside from all that, could you also try not to make statements don't bring anything new to the discussion?

"General Tazri - Fast, consistent, resilient - everything you'd want in a combo deck. Obviously tier 1."

Ok, sure, but no one has even been contesting that, so why did you need to bring it up? Almost half of your comments in that post are to say that a commander should stay right where it is, when there hasn't even been any talk of moving it down. Why bother telling us? It just distracts from anything interesting you might be saying.

I don't take an issue with you making a very long post, or with you sharing your opinion, but in the future, please try your best to make sure that everything you're saying is really worth saying, and that the comment you make is the best one you're able to make, before hitting send. Because reading all that as it was was annoying.

You did make some good points in all that, so let me give you a response to them:

  • Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder, There's been some talk of moving him down. I will consider it. But after all the talk about sticking him and swinging the next turn in the KessVsJeleva discussion, I can't help feeling like we're missing an easier way to go off with him on the same turn. Adding Concordant Crossroads and Need for Speed to the deck might be worthwhile. JimWolfie's deck also doesn't run Hurkyl's Recall or Retract, both of which seem really good with the cascade trigger. Another solid plan might be to cut Lotus Bloom. Since mana is usually easier to generate than cards, you'd be certain without it in there that your first cascade trigger would give you gas, which makes trying to storm into a hasty Yidris much more reliable.

  • Brago, King Eternal & Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, You had pretty solid reasoning for moving these guys down. A new deck like Blood Pod being a tough match-up is a good meta reason for demoting a commander. (For anyone wondering, "X new commander in Y color identity plays Z strategy better!" is a BAD meta reason, because it doesn't actually make the old commander any worse.) I would be willing to move them down to T2, but I'd like to get a consensus before doing so.

  • Sidisi, Brood Tyrant & The Gitrog Monster, I could see these two moving up as well, but I'm a bit more hesitant about The Gitrog Monster. The reliability of the combo can't be denied, but like Sidisi, Undead Vizier, it's a bit difficult for it to play through counterspells. There are only like 3 or 4 effective ways to stop people from messing with your spells, and a lot of Gitrog lines rely on specific cards, so it's easy to know what to counter.

  • Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, Finally, a demotion I can get behind. I feel like the only reason she was placed so high to begin with was people sort of expected proliferate.dec to have better synergies come out of it. At this point all we really need to do is figure out how low she should actually get dropped and what strategy is really best for her.

  • Oona, Queen of the Fae & Dralnu, Lich Lord, You're saying these should stay, and my opinion on Dralnu is already out there, so I'm not going to get too into this, but as a general statement I'd just like to say that it's worthwhile to think of the .5 tiers as a section for commanders that are around the same power level as the tier above them, but have weakness or drawbacks in their strategy compared to those commanders. Dralnu is about the same power level as many T2 commanders, but has an obvious drawback that weighs him down a little. Same could be said for most of T1.5 and T2.5. However, all of that was a tangent, because what I started writing this to say was I disagree with your estimation of their color identity as "restricted." Dimir is actually one of the best color pairs right now for infinite combo decks, since it has Dramatic Scepter, PE, HT, the best control cards, great draw, all the general tutors, AND all the artifact tutors. Losing green hurts your ramp a little bit, but all the extra rocks you're including for your combos go a long way towards making it up, and creature tutors are all but unnecessary. Blue/Black is just awesome right now, all I'm saying.

  • Baral, Chief of Compliance, This is interesting. Has he not been as effective as people were thinking, or did HT just fall out of favor? I'm open to the idea. What does everybody else think of demoting him?

  • I'll swap to your Johnny, Combo Player list. I didn't really bother checking the last one that thoroughly since it's Un-set. Your's seems better.


To everybody else, I'm reviewing the decks that have been posted. I'll put up the ones that look good, and comment if I think something needs to be changed. Stay posted.

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