split second combo stack manipulation help
Asked by tigermanic 3 months ago
I'm I've built a Red burn Commander deck with Toralf, God of Fury Flip at the helm.
I have a plan of using a split second spell, like Sudden Shock followed by flipping a morphed burn creature like Skirk Volcanist to start a damage trigger cascade that opponents will not be able to easily interact with.
My question is if there is anything I could be doing to get a split second spell to sit on the stack while damage triggers go off without needing a morph creature sitting on standby?
tigermanic says... #2
legendofa, Would Sudden Shock still be on the stack when an Imodane, the Pyrohammer begins dealing damage due to it only targeting and damaging a single target? Or will I need to look for on cast triggered abilities?
August 2, 2025 5:05 p.m.
I'm a little hazier on this part, but I believe a spell is removed from the stack as it resolves. So Sudden Shock would resolve, removing itself from the stack and dealing damage. Imodane, the Pyrohammer would trigger in response to the damage, but Sudden Shock has already fully resolved and left the stack.
On-cast triggers would work. If you lean into the face-down stuff, Bonethorn Valesk and Pyrotechnic Performer can also set damage triggers while a split second card is on the stack.
August 2, 2025 6:06 p.m.
The spell is removed before the damage trigger is added to the stack, do you would need cast triggers. One thing you can do other than special actions is activate mana abilities. This includes things like Ashnod's Altar/Phyrexian Altar, so you can get Death triggers into the mix.
August 3, 2025 10:22 a.m.
"Whenever you cast an instant" cards like Guttersnipe, Aria of Flame possibly untap engines like Thermo-Alchemist and Unruly Catapult with dmg doubling effects like Furnace of Rath would work well. Cards that copy the next spell like Chandra, Hope's Beacon Cursed Recording and the emblem from Rowan, Scholar of Sparks Flip
Krark, the Thumbless adds an interesting interaction, you can trigger all of your "when you cast" triggers then have a 50/50 chance of getting the spell back to do it again, or you get a double spell.
August 5, 2025 7:28 a.m.
tigermanic says... #6
StYY I wouldn't be able to tap creatures like Thermo-Alchemist while a split second spell is on the stack, so untapping them isn't necessarily helpful.
But getting Sudden Shock copied in the stack with a damage double in play would totally get me when I'm going!
legendofa says... Accepted answer #1
TL;DR: Look for triggered abilities, and keep those face down creatures on standby. They're probably the most useful thing that can happen.
To answer the rules question, split second prevents players from casting spells or activating non-mana abilities. Triggered abilities can still trigger, either from casting the split second spell or from a special action that doesn't use the stack. Here's a list of those special actions that don't use the stack, courtesy of rule 116.2:
playing a land (sorcery speed)
unmorphing, uncloaking, or otherwise flipping something face up (instant speed)
delaying or ending certain effects, like Quenchable Fire or Tempting Licid (read the card for timing restrictions)
paying to ignore certain effects, like Leonin Arbiter or Volrath's Curse (instant speed as needed)
discarding Circling Vultures (instant speed)
suspending a card (normal timing restrictions for whatever you're suspending)
adding a companion to your hand from outside the game (sorcery speed)
foretelling a card from your hand (instant speed during your turn)
rolling the planar die in a Planechase game (sorcery speed)
revealing a Conspiracy card in a Conspiracy draft format (instant speed)
plotting a card from your hand (sorcery speed)
unlocking a Room (sorcery speed)
Most of these don't apply to your deck or the situation, or are restricted to sorcery speed and can't be used around split second.
August 2, 2025 4:16 p.m.