Can you copy a spell as long as its on the stack...?
Asked by thehatter831 11 years ago
Blistercoil Werid deck looks awesome fun. Now The detailed question would be, if I casted Thunderous Wrath (in order), Burst of Strength 's, allowing to untap blistercoild weird as needed, still having Thunderous Wrath on the stack. Would I be able to constantly 'copy' the Thunderous Wrath with mana provided and having Dual Casting , the bracer and chromatic lanturn all in play?
It sounds like he has Thunderous Wrath on the stack with Dual Casting in Blistercoil Weird . He pays one mana and taps the Wierd to copy the Wrath (putting that on the stack). He then plays Burst of Strength on the Weird.
He allows Burst to resolve. But before the first instance of the copied wrath resolves, he again pays one red and taps the Weird to copy it a second time.
If that's what he intends. Then yes, all of that is legal. And you end up with 3 copies of the Wrath going off.
May 17, 2013 10:53 a.m.
Yes. Any time a spell or ability resolves, the active player and the non-active player both get priority in turn and have to pass priority before the next thing on the stack can resolve.
Whenever you cast and instant or sorcery, Blistercoil Weird 's ability goes on the stack. In this scenario: When you cast Burst of Strength , the Weird's ability goes on the top of the stack. The ability resolves, and you and your opponent pass priority. Burst resolves, and priority falls to you again. Now you can activate Dual Casting , targeting Thunderous Wrath , which is still on the bottom of the stack.
May 17, 2013 10:54 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
Like I said in the first part of my response, any of your spells on the stack is a legal target for the ability granted by Dual Casting . If you've cast Thunderous Wrath but it hasn't resolved yet, that means it's still on the stack.
May 17, 2013 10:56 a.m.
If you have a bracer on the Wierd and Dual casting and you copy a spell, you'll get two copies of that spell.
He will not however, get two triggered untap events when you cast a spell though.
May 17, 2013 11:02 a.m.
Arachnarchist says... #11
With the bracers you should be able to copy each instance of theDual Casting . You copy the wrath once and the Burst of Strength once each. Let the copied burst resolve and untap the weird , and then repeat as long as you have mana.
May 17, 2013 11:20 a.m.
JaredMatthewsArtwork says... #12
Assuming you have enough mana to do it, here's how that could go, just not constantly. Blistercoil Weird with Dual Casting enchanting it is currently on the battlefield(without summoning sickness). You cast Thunderous Wrath, then copy it with Dual Casting . Once Weird is tapped, you cast Burst of Strength targeting Weird, which untaps it because of weird's triggered ability. Before you allow Burst of Strength to resolve you tap Blistercoil Weird again to copy either Thunderous Wrath , Thunderous Wrath (copy), Thunderous Wrath (copy 2), or Burst of Strength (none of which have resolved yet, or the couldn't be targeted) with burst being on top of the stack. If any of this were not instant speed you couldn't keep all of this on the stack but since it is all instant speed, everything is allowed to be a reaction to everything else, keeping it all on the stack. If you keep targeting Burst of Strength as your card to copy, yes if you had infinite red mana you could copy it infinitely, but(someone please correct me if I'm wrong) I do believe this does not let you play any more Thunderous Wrath s then just targeting the Thunderous Wrath this time. You are more concerned with playing as many Thunderous Wrath as you can. So now you allow burst to resolve targeting Blistercoil Weird , untapping it and putting a +1/+1 counter on Weird, making it a 4/4 for the turn. You now tap it a final time to play Thunderous Wrath for the final time, leaving you with a tapped 4/4 blistercoil and 4 Thunderous Wrath on the stack. Now you resolve the wraths and hit for 20.
May 17, 2013 11:22 a.m.
You can do more than that. It's best to understand the stack here.
Here's how I see it playing out:
So, you Miracle the Wrath.It hits the stack. (R)
Your weird +1/+1, untaps triggered ability hits the stack.
You pay 1 red and tap him for the dual casting and that ability hits the stack. (R)
The bracers puts another copy of that ability on the stack.
You play Burst of Strength and it hits the stack.
Your weird's +1/+1 untaps ability is triggered and hits the stack
You allow the untap ability to resolve.
You pay R and tap the Weird again for dual cast
Bracers trigger and add a second copy to the stack.
So, the stack has from oldest to newest with mana spent: Original Wrath (R), Untap trigger, Wrath Copy (R), Wrath Copy, Burst of Strength (G), Wrath Copy(R), Wrath Copy.
You've paid RRRG and you've got 5 copies of Wrath on the stack. When the burst resolves you'll get another chance to untap and copy 2 more Wraths.
May 17, 2013 11:23 a.m.
JaredMatthewsArtwork says... #14
Somehow I accidently got an extra wrath in there....
May 17, 2013 11:24 a.m.
SplodyCopter says... #16
Well it's not a very efficient combo anyway, only 2 of the cards are permanents, and it's a four card combo. Plus you have to miracle the Thunderous Wrath . So I'd say yes, the best option is probably something like Fireblast , having tapped the two mountains for mana, and then casting for the alternate cost. Since you can make five copies of the spell.
May 17, 2013 12:10 p.m.
"combos" and "work decent" do not tend to go hand in hand when talking about standard - the meta game is too fast and focused on removal to make combo decks too viable...
but...there are a number of combos right now in standard to get infinite mana and thusly mill or burn for a million.
May 17, 2013 1:09 p.m.
With red/blue you can use:
Deadeye Navigator
soulbound to Zealous Conscripts
and have a Gilded Lotus
in play (or your opponent could have one) - for 1U1C (which you tap the lotus for 3U and spend 2 of it) you could blink out the conscript and when it comes back into play, rebind to deadeye and gain control and untap the lotus. Repeat for a net gain of 1 mana each time. You can get up to infinite blue this way and then obviously spend the blue to activate the deadeye while tapping the lotus for red/green/black/white to gain inifinite mana in every color.
From there, Increasing Confusion or anything with an X value and you win (or Mindshrieker
With Green and Blue:
You can use a ton of combos to get infinite mana. I don't want to describe them all here, but you can look at one of my older decks to see how it works: Infinite Combo-win
The Blistercoil Weird , Dual Casting , and Illusionist's Bracers are a good set up to combos, but that's a lot of set up. Fortunately, some of those cards do good things on their own or with other cards.
For instance, Illusionist's Bracers on say Captain of the Mists will give you 2 tap/untap effects for 2 mana, so you could do same combo with him equipped with the bracer and the gilded lotus. (Untap himself and the lotus for 2 mana).
Or on Niblis of the Breath equipped, you could pay 1 blue to tap/untap 2 creatures (1 probably being himself) And if you had like an Axebane Guardian out with another defender, there's another infinite mana loop that also in-itself allows you to tap all your opponent's creatures.
I'd aim for synergy over combo though. I just find that things that work well on their own, but then maybe double-triple in value with other cards working with it are better than a set of cards that are "ok" or "crap" alone, but if together give a win.
For instance: Arbor Elf - a card everyone uses for a turn 1 mana ramp. Good on it's own. Verdant Haven - another usable card, on it's own it mana ramps you for 1 of any color plus heals you for 2. It gets overlooked imo. Add those 2 cards together and you have an Arbor Elf that can not untap a forest which can be a shockland enchanted with Verdant Haven and you're now getting another mana ramp. Equip those bracers to the elf and you now get two untap effects. (but the bracers don't do anything alone - but if you have a lot of creatures in your deck that would benefit from being equipped than they could be worthwhile). I've had a Breeding Pool enchanted with 4 Verdant Haven s and had 2-3 Arbor Elf s in play....that's a lot of mana. 5 from the land plus 5 for each elf. Rewind also worked well there.
Anyways...hopefully all that ramble helps you. If you're going for a large mana combo than look for X spells to max out. If you're going for duplicating combo, than look for cheaper cards so you have mana left to copy/combo it Mind Sculpt for instance. 2 mana for 7 mil, if you can then copy it 4+ times with the blistercoil weird/dual casting stuff then that's a quick win too.
May 17, 2013 1:40 p.m.
minor correction: .... an Arbor Elf that can untap a forest which can --- be a shockland enchanted...
May 17, 2013 1:44 p.m.
You can use Galvanic Alchemist
soulbound to Axebane Guardian
or Arbor Elf
as long as you can tap the elf or axebane for more than the 3 mana it costs to untap using the alchemist soulbound ability.
Rhadamanthus says... #1
They way you have it written out is very confusing and not clear at all, but I'll try my best.
Dual Casting says "target instant or sorcery spell you control", which means any of your spells currently on the stack is a legal target.
Blistercoil Weird only triggers when you cast a spell. Dual Casting doesn't cast anything, it just makes a copy.
Keep in mind that Illusionist's Bracers can't copy Weird's triggered ability.
I don't know if there's another question in there you also need answered, but again, your post is very difficult to understand.
May 17, 2013 10:48 a.m.