Triggered Abilities expanded, and Strionic Resonator
General forum
Posted on July 11, 2013, 6:21 p.m. by RokuganiPimp
Okay now that the main function of the Resonator is fully understood lets take a look at what exactly denotes a triggered ability. This is where things could get tricky.
Like BATTALION. For example if you attack with 3 Boros Elite is their BATTALION ability "triggered" by attacking with two other creatures therefor copyable by the Resonator?
If so what other abilities are triggered abilities that at first glance people may overlook?
mattmfmartin says... #3
Melek, Izzet Paragon Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Guttersnipe Voice of Resurgence Corpsejack Menace were the obvious choices to me. Is that the correct usage?
July 11, 2013 6:28 p.m.
I believe Corpsejack Menace is a replacement effect not a triggered ability. The word "instead" at the end of his rule text makes me think this. Or are they the same thing?
July 11, 2013 7:16 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #5
Those are all proper uses of the Resonator.
Without getting into the wording aspect of it, a Triggered Ability is simply any ability that happens because of something else.
ex: Voice of Resurgence makes a token because your opponent killed it.
ex: Oblivion Ring exiles a card because it entered the battlefield (and has an ETB trigger)
July 11, 2013 7:20 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
A triggered ability ALWAYS begins with the word at, when, or whenever. It has a trigger event and an effect. Sometimes, triggered abilities also have conditions (e.g. "if X," as in Demonic Rising ). Conditional "if" abilities won't trigger unless the condition is true, and they won't do anything on resolution unless the condition is still true.
July 11, 2013 7:20 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #7
Oh, good catch. Yeah, that's a replacement effect. You can't copy those; they just are.
July 11, 2013 7:21 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
Triggered abilities always start with one of the words "when", "whenever", or "at". Those are the only kinds of abilities that can be copied by Strionic Resonator. There are some keyword abilities (Battalion, Extort, Bushido, etc.) that are triggered because of the way their full rules text is written, and that's how the reminder text for those rules will be written when it appears on the card.
Activated abilities are always written as "Cost : Effect". Examples include Jace, Memory Adept , Shivan Dragon , Master Decoy , and Strionic Resonator itself. Anything else is some type of static ability.
July 11, 2013 7:23 p.m.
the first uses (in standard) that came to my mind were: Angelic Skirmisher , Aurelia, the Warleader , Archangel of Thune , Kalonian Hydra
July 11, 2013 8:40 p.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #10
Triggered abilities DO NOT always start with one of the words "when", "whenever", or "at".
There are other descriptors like "if" or "then" also apply.
A triggered ability happens when certain conditions are met. When Strionic Resonator says "(A triggered ability uses the words "when", "whenever" or "at".)" it is merely giving examples.
http://mtg.wikia.com/wiki/Trigger_abilities
July 11, 2013 8:57 p.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #11
here's a good example:
The triggered ability here is that "if" the card drawn is a creature "then" you untap the Scholar and transform him.
July 11, 2013 9:01 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #12
A triggered ability never begins with any word other than "when/whenever/at". This is specifically outlined in the Comprehensive Rules.
603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as "[Trigger condition], [effect]," and begin with the word "when," "whenever," or "at." They can also be expressed as "[When/Whenever/At] [trigger event], [effect]."
July 11, 2013 9:02 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #13
Civilized Scholar Flip doesn't have any triggered abilities. It has an activated ability that does something special if a certain condition is met while it's resolving.
July 11, 2013 9:03 p.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #14
okay well that sounds more correct, but this is going to open up a rules quagmire. i wouldnt be surprised if this card causes them to reevaulate triggered abilities and how they function.
July 11, 2013 9:05 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
There's nothing to reevaluate. Triggered abilities will always begin with one of those three words.
As I said, conditional clauses, which are different, begin with "if."
Also, there's no such thing as an ability within another ability. Abilities are all written on separate lines. Civilized Scholar Flip has a single ability with multiple parts.
July 11, 2013 9:47 p.m.
Actually, triggered abilities are some of the most obvious... excluding "Delayed Triggers"... they can sometimes be harder to recognize.
Doesn't Venser, the Sojourner 's +2 cause a delayed triggered ability...?
"+2: Exile target permanent you own. Return it to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of the next end step."
That appears to me to be an activated ability, which causes a delayed triggered ability... it still uses "At", but it doesn't start with "At". (If this is the case, they may need to errata the Oracle Text to say "At the beginning of the next end step, return it to the battlefield under your control.")
Not that there's many uses to copy that ability, since only one can resolve... though if someone casts Time Stop after it's on the stack to prevent you from getting the exiled permanent back, you could copy it, and get it back before Time Stop resolves.
July 11, 2013 10:03 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #17
While it's true that Venser, Shaper Savant 's ability creates a DTA, that DTA is not nested within the loyalty (activated) ability. Abilities can create other abilities, but there are no hybrids that are both activated and triggered.
July 11, 2013 10:08 p.m.
So delayed triggered abilities are, from what I can tell, still copyable by "Strionic Resonator"... and they will be harder for some people to notice.
"603.7. An effect may create a delayed triggered ability that can do something at a later time. A delayed triggered ability will contain "when," "whenever," or "at," although that word won't usually begin the ability."
Although the reminder text on "Strionic Resonator" states that triggered abilities are ones that begin with "When", "Whenever", or "At"... the rules state that this is not always the case. (Unless "Strionic Resonator" cannot copy delayed triggered abilities.)
July 11, 2013 10:16 p.m.
The M14 rules Q/A doesn't specify that qualifcation. I've been reading the card rulings all day.
July 11, 2013 10:19 p.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #20
and there you go
like i said, this isnt going to be as simple as it first seems in terms of rulings.
July 11, 2013 10:24 p.m.
Nevermind, I thought the card's reminder text said that these "start" with those words... it just says they "use" those words.
Still, delayed triggers are ones that may elude/confuse people. Otherwise, they should be obvious.
Oddly... the rules first state that triggered abilities begin with one of these...
"603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as "[Trigger condition], [effect]," and begin with the word "when," "whenever," or "at." They can also be expressed as "[When/Whenever/At] [trigger event], [effect]." "
... then in rule 603.7, there is a change stating that they do not always begin with these words.
July 11, 2013 10:25 p.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #22
they will probably clarify that then one way or the other. im guessing a delayed triggered ability will be only copyable after it enters the stack.
July 11, 2013 10:29 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #23
Accidentally typed Venser, Shaper Savant instead of Venser, the Sojourner .
A delayed triggered ability is still a triggered ability. It can still be copied.
@RokuganiPimp: Until they trigger, DTAs don't really "exist" anywhere. They are established whenever the first ability or effect resolves, and they are stacked the next time a player would receive priority after the trigger event. You'll be able to copy them once they trigger.
July 11, 2013 10:31 p.m.
smash10101 says... #24
delayed triggered abilities still contain at/when/whenever. The most common one it "At the beginning of the next end step..." The DTA is usually worded in the second sentence of an activated ability, such as with AEtherling 's flicker
July 11, 2013 11:32 p.m.
How would this work with extortion? Would it just be paying two for 1 instance of extort? Or could I extort someone for double the amount?
August 18, 2013 6:23 p.m.
Each instance of extort would be one target. So if you have three permanents with extort on the field and pay the three white and/or black mana to extort in full and then pay 2 for resonator you would end up extorting for 4 total. (3 from the actual permanents with extort and then 1 from the resonator
Devonin says... #2
Flanking, Storm, Haunt, Exalted, Cascade, Annihilator, Battle Cry, Evolve, and Extort are all triggered abilities that might be fun to copy with the Resonator.
July 11, 2013 6:28 p.m.