Refused to play game 2 because he lost to my "sh*tty deck" lol
General forum
Posted on Feb. 7, 2022, 12:36 a.m. by MagicSteve6
I just had to share this. I was just playing on Untap, Modern format, set to "Optimized" level. In game 1, I beat a guy playing Death's Shadow, but he refused to play out the round because he said "your deck sucks." I'll let that sink in... I was playing mono green stompy, so yes not a standard Tier 1 deck, but it's my own version of it that doesn't match any decklists I've found, and it actually manages to do pretty well. And again, he lost...
He said "You don't understand. I'm practicing so I can play well in tournaments, and no one plays your deck, cause it's sh*t." Ok... but you still lost, it's not like this is a subjective argument. The only logical conclusion then is that, if my deck sucks, your deck sucks even more (sure, maybe not, but I wanted to play more games to see!).
He then finished by saying, "I get it, you just can't afford real decks." Which basically amounts to saying that his ability to copy-and-paste someone else's decklist but be able to pay for it... is more impressive than my ability to build a cheaper, unconventional deck that still beats his.
I just.. am I off base in how absurd his stance was? A bit frustrating but honestly more just comical to me, had to share.
I love that logic.
-"Your deck's stupid and can't win!"
-"But it just won."
-"Nuh-uh! My deck's better cuz it's worth more so I won!"
-"You're at zero life."
-"That doesn't matter! My deck's worth more money!"
-"Your board is empty, and I have a stack of creatures a mile high."
-"I don't care! Your deck's still bad and won't ever win!"
-"...?"
I mean, random other dude, you just lost. Rogue decks exist. Good and bad matchups exist. Modern decks that aren't worth a month's rent exist. You lost to a deck you didn't recognize. Get over it.
A familiar, well-practiced basic burn deck can be half of the price of a three-color control deck that was ntdecked an hour ago (mtggoldfish.com for prices), and still win every time. Money helps, but skill and practice are the foundation.
February 7, 2022 1:01 a.m.
MagicSteve6 says... #4
Cool, thanks for the validation lol. I'm not a super serious player, just something I do a bit for fun, and I've created a deck that is really "my own" and is fun to play, but can still hang pretty well against competitive decks. Not gonna clean up the pro scene, but I'm proud of it :)
February 7, 2022 1:16 a.m.
MagicSteve6 That's the best kind of deck, in my opinion.
February 7, 2022 1:20 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #6
I will say that netdecking isn't inherently worse than creating your own deck though--after all, it's a little silly to pretend like there aren't people who dedicate their lives to solving formats, and to not use what they've learned. It can also be very hard to pilot a netdeck, so copy-pasting doesn't immediately give you a higher chance to win... there's still some effort involved in learning the lines.
THAT SAID: I very much prefer trying to make my own decks, and there's a certain feeling that you can't get anywhere else, when you stomp a meta deck with your own creation.
February 7, 2022 1:40 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #7
Some people are just inherently assholes. Others genuinely aren't assholes, but rather they feel a deep lack of control and / or self-worth and instead lash out at others. What happens in the latter is that they feel they lack any sort of meaning in their own life, so they look for areas which they can control and hyperfocus on it. Then, if it doesn't work out, it causes a very serious psychiatric break. Essentially it is a mental breakdown followed by an emotional one.
I've seen this quite a lot in high school, in college, and even with a current coworker of mine. His name is Ryan. Since nobody here knows who he actually is, that's fine to use his first name.
Ryan is young. I think 22 or 23. For context I will be turning 33 in a few months. Shocker, I know. Anyway, Ryan is a guy with minimal work experience and hardly any work ethic. His one job consisted of sitting at a cash register at a liquor store selling booze to drunks in a college town. Being a "self-serving supervisor", he would spend basically all of his time on his phone. Well, now he has to put his big boy pants on because he has a forklift to drive, a machine to manage, orders to fulfill, quality control inspections to partake in, warehousing duties to perform, etc. Honestly why my boss hired him is beyond me. His interview was literally "hey im buying alcohol you want a job?"
But this isn't a soapbox for my annoyances, this is about helping a user on this site understand life from a different perspective.
Ryan comes from a life where he has "no control". His mother is sick, his father is gone, he has almost no friends. He has a night job where his one task was accepting money and trying to not get shot if the store is robbed. Now he has massive amounts of responsibility where you can destroy $60,000 worth of product in a single shift merely by not watching what you're doing. We just had an employee destroy a $5,000 pallet of product because he took a corner too fast and slammed the contents against a beam and shattered half of the pallet of finished goods.
Again, not a soap box. I'm getting to the point, I promise.
So, some people are thrust into situations they lack control in, and this can be quite upsetting for them. So, they hyperfocus. For Ryan, his hyperfocus is fixated on his cellphone. It isn't that he is addicted to Twitter / Instagram / Facebook / YouTube / Reddit. No, it's that it became a form of escapism and he lost control. Whenever he becomes stressed, out comes the phone and in goes the earbuds. One time it was so bad that myself, another coworker and our plant manager were gathered around the electrical panel for the CNC learning how to read codes and reset and troubleshoot. Ryan was there, too. As myself and my coworker stood there paying attention to the job at hand, Ryan physically leaned up against the transformer, took his phone out and began texting.
One time I was training him on something new and he took his phone out to text. When I said, "are you done?" he literally put his index finger up as though to say "gimme a second."
I tell you, if I had the ability to fire him on the spot, I would have.
Again. Not a soap box. So here comes the point.
The point is, stressors in life are often alleviated by some form of enjoyment. For Ryan, when his job becomes stressful - and by "stressful", I mean he must actually do some semblance of work for once in his damn life, he regresses into online entertainment to drown out the negativity in his life that is, well, us.
Now, this player online that was so rude to you, it is possible that for them, MTG online represents the same escape that online social media does for Ryan; An escape. If this user is having a terrible day, a rough time, is anxious, depressed, sad, etc they may be playing the game to relax and unwind.
Unfortunately, hyperfixation often means a new degree of stress. When something doesn't go your way when you hyperfixate, especially if this fixation is an escape, it can make you feel like an utter and complete failure.
I've seen Ryan sit in a forklift, rapidly punching the steering wheel and slamming his foot down on the pedals because because he spilled a cart of scrap - which is no big deal, just pick the fucking thing up and go about your day. I've seen him slam a hammer into a wooden saw table over and over again because he set the fence for the saw to the incorrect position. Again, not a big deal just set the fence to a new location. It takes like a minute at most. I've seen him slam a bathroom door over and over and over again because he was told that the work he did was no good because he wasn't paying attention.
People lash out when they are angry. And people can become angry when they want to escape, and that escapism causes stress.
So if this player is lashing out at you, because you are winning, it likely has nothing to do with them viewing you as a winner, and rather more so as them viewing themselves as a loser.
Negativity compounds... it's something I've spent my entire life learning about... sigh...
Just try to be nice, take it on the chin and realize, it's just a game. Someone else's bad day doesn't have to be yours. They may have a legitimate reason they are upset, and their anger is inappropriately directed at you, because they have nowhere else to direct it other than inwardly at themselves...
...or he's just a salty asshole who can't stand getting rekt. Gg mate, lololol
February 7, 2022 3:15 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #8
I recall playing a 5c Ur-Dragon deck against SOMEONE WHO SHALL REMAIN UNNAMED on here, and this degenerate had the gall to play mill! MILL! scoffs!
MILL! I- I... okay, sure so MAYBE I brought a, like idk... +$700 Ur-Dragon deck to our first meet-and-greet and SURE MAYBE I had an opening hand of multiple fetches, a sol ring and topdecked a mana crypt, and sure MAAAYBEEE I had just spent a few rounds kicking their Golgari ass... but MILL??
Joking aside, bruh it's just a game. Unless money is on the table, it's literally just a game. How's that saying go again, "Live. Laugh. Love."?
God I feel like a 20-something year old girl's doormat. And not even the fun kind of doormat, either.
February 7, 2022 3:24 a.m. Edited.
TypicalTimmy From context clues, I'm going with salty try-hard. Having worked with my own set of people whose response to problems was to lash out, this seems like a different kind of response. It's dangerous to analyze people from one short story on an internet forum, but I'm inferring an arrogant, mocking tone instead of frustration, or anger, or despair. I see this person reacting more to the deck itself than to the loss. Because it didn't fit in their circle of what makes a Good Deck (tm), it could only be a Bad Deck (tm).
I've started playing online more (gotta get the fix somehow), and I sometimes wonder about the emotions of the anonymous people I'm against. Are they having a good day? Will a loss here make them angry? Or are they just here to sling spells and kill time? Maybe they have someone over their shoulder teaching them. I don't know, and I'm not qualified to be the world's therapist. But sometimes, I just wonder if I should just throw a game or two and make someone's day just a little bit better.
February 7, 2022 3:46 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #10
Jeez, I see a lot of negativity projected, but he said he was training for modern tournaments, where the meta is established, and you want to practice against the decks you're most likely to encounter. Your deck was not one of them, so it doesn't count as practice for his ends. His attitude about it was uncalled for, but he was putting in hours to grind the matches he needs.
"Someone is training to box in a tournament. In random sparring, his opponent pulls a knife on him. Yes, the knife will probably win, yes, he can make an attempt to disarm the knife, but that does not help him prepare for the boxing tournament, and his time is better spent fighting other boxers. "
That's your disagreement, he's playing more serious than you are, with different goals, and therefor different demands on how their time is spent. He was being rude about it, but there's no need for a deep psychological analysis from a loser's perspective who doesn't want to lose again. You have a brew with a good matchup against what he's playing, that he doesn't think he need to prepare for.
If you want to get back at him, join his tournament, beat him again, make him regret he didn't prepare for your matchup. That's the world he's living in, that's the language he will understand. Until mono G Stompy is in the top of the modern meta and played by a lot of people across the format, then he will finish his matches while practicing for a tournament. Before then, just enjoy the win and move on to the next online opponent.
February 7, 2022 4:28 a.m.
plakjekaas I agree with your interpretation of the motivation, but the negativity isn't really "projected" and damages any point they might have had. Assuming the original post isn't exaggerating, there's no reason to not say "Cool deck, and good win, but it's not what I'm looking for. Do you have a more meta deck I could practice on?"
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an off-meta deck to show up. Sure, you want to get the hours in against the most likely opposition, but rogue decks can and do win matches. Also, I believe that adaptability is an underrated skill in tournament play. If a mono- Stompy deck shows up, and you lose to it in a tournament, it's completely unreasonable to tell your opponent that the match didn't count and they should use a deck you've practiced against. If this person wants to grind for tournaments, they should act like every match is a tournament event.
February 7, 2022 4:44 a.m.
Some people cannot comprehend the difficulty of netdecking. They have to hit command C and then command V. The sequencing can be tedious at times, especially when accounting for wind trajectory, the economy of cotton sweatshirts in Carolina, and your Zodiac sign. This clearly outclasses ingenuity and gives the player an intrinsic right to be churlish on all fronts.
(In summation, there is no folly in net-decking, but do not be haughty when cornered.)
February 7, 2022 4:54 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #13
legendofa I did say the attitude was uncalled for, and you're right about the ways it could have been handled better, but I personally do think the essays of insecurity in this thread are equally uncalled for. I just don't think the exchange was that significant, I've had this conversation multiple times when I play semicompetitive brews against tournament grinders '^^
The statistics will tell you what matches to prepare for, and you don't need a X-0 record to make top 8. The brew decks are wildcards in your tournament, and it's unlikely you'll find more than 1 playing against you if the tournament is sufficiently big. The mental effort to construct a defense against a deck you didn't prepare for, is only distracting when you're trying to solidify your strategy against Hammertime, or Burn, or Omnath piles, decks you're definitely going to encounter.
There's less risk in skipping an unlikely matchup in your preparations than there is in disrupting your learning curve for the likely matchups. What if you prepare your strategy for mono stompy but the brew in the tournament is Enchantress? You can't prepare for all of them, so you prepare for the most likely ones to find, and expend the improvising effort only when the underrepresented situation actually comes knocking. Being aware, on a surface level, that the threat exists, is vital of course, but if you live in the mountains, you don't need an evacuation plan for a tsunami situation. Dig up one of those when the streets are actually flooding. That's how risk assessment is done, even outside of Magic.
Playing every match like it's a tournament match is exhausting. If the attitude is already as trashy as described in the story, I could imagine people not doing that on Untap
February 7, 2022 5:44 a.m.
Tl;dr I think Optimized level would reasonably represent a tournament meta. It's pointless to prepare for every possible matchup, and the majority of your time should be spent practicing against the major decks, but accept wild cards as they come. If you want to practice for tournaments, act like you're in a tournament, and step to casual when you want a break.
plakjekaas Of course, nobody can possibly prepare for all possible decks to be sitting across from them. And, of course, you want to spend as much time as possible practicing against the major players.
But to continue your knife analogy, here's two scenarios.
At a sanctioned boxing tournament: "Ref! My opponent just pulled out a knife!" immediate disqualification and removal from the grounds
At a sanctioned Modern tournament: "Judge! My opponent just pulled out a mono- Stompy!" immediate disqualification and removal from the grounds
Yeah, it's pointless to practice against knives if knives are expressly forbidden. But if the deck is legal and capable of winning, it's a threat. Where's the cutoff point? Do you only practice against the five most common decks? The ten most common? Fifteen?
In an Optimized environment, it's safe to make the following assumptions:
-
Everyone believes their deck can compete with the best decks available.
-
Everyone is trying their hardest to win.
In that environment (and here I speculate without personal knowledge of Untap) the decks represent a reasonable approximation of a tournament. Most of the decks you see will be the Tier 1 meta decks, because that's what (I expect) will be in Optimized. So you should have plenty of opportunity to practice against the Yorion Blinks and Hammer Times and whatnot, but if a wild card shows up, whatever that wild card is, you should assume it's competent, capable, and trying to win.
You don't need to prep for a tsunami in the mountains. But if you choose to be surrounded by sharks, you shouldn't act like one is actually a goldfish.
Finally, I don't recommend playing literally every match you start as if it was tournament. If you want to take a break, step out of Optimized (I assume this is an environment geared to the competitive) and into a more casual setting where you can relax a bit. I don't know what the Untap culture is like, but if this trashiness is notable enough to exist as a thread, trashiness shouldn't be the default.
I have a couple of questions about Untap. Are you limited to a certain number of matches per day, so that an off-meta match prevents you from meta practice later? If you want to hit, say, fifteen matches against Death's Shadow, fifteen against Yorion Blink, twelve on Hammer Time, twelve on Izzet Regent, ten on Boros Burn, and ten on Footfalls Cascade (representing 50% of the meta per mtggoldfish), will one match against a random other deck break that?
February 7, 2022 6:33 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #15
legendofa I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was the tournament grinder myself. I'm merely echoing the players who I encountered in my LGS who were playing match after match of Standard, asked if I could tag in with my deck, they asked what I played. When I declared the equivalent of the mono green stompy modern from the OP for Standard at the time, they told me they'd rather not have me join in, pretty much because of all the reasons already mentioned. They both top16'd on 1000+ player Grand Prix tournaments, and I won't question their methods, since I never placed higher than 20th in a local pptq '^^
They would play casual FNMs with the same deck, play against all the brews without complaint, but when they were actually getting in the games to learn all intricacies to the matchup they feared most, they preferred to stay away from the "could be good enough if lucky"-decks and focus on the task at hand.
I do believe randomly online paired matches will not simulate the LGS grinding I mentioned very well, but the mindset of "I'm trying to grind relevant matches and don't want to be distracted" would still apply.
I've never played on Untap, so I couldn't give you those specifics, it's probably more the 20 minutes spent on a post-sideboard game, and maybe even another if you do manage to win game 2, were not worth the time and effort for the purpose he was playing for.
It's still unnecessarily arrogant to call the deck you lose to a horrible deck, and I'm glad I got the explanation from friendly players who were clear about their intentions. It is easier to be rude about it online, and I'm not trying to play devil's advocate by defending his words. I don't want to defend his words. I am just trying to say that practicing for a tournament is a reason to refuse certain matchups. I would imagine Death's Shadow vs Mono G Stompy is as annoying to play as Burn vs Martyr Proc, which you would probably dismiss as "I can't win this, I'll try and win the rest" if you'd encounter it in a tournament. Of course you'd try with Skullcrack when it happens, but the cards are quite literally stacked against you.
February 7, 2022 7:29 a.m.
Everybody gets in a bad mood I guess. Some people just start the game that way sometimes : )
I'd say that there was a logic to it, but when they start insulting the dollar value of your deck, yeah, that's odd. It's one thing to like your deck, but it's another to like yourself based on your deck, and it sounds like maybe this player crossed that bridge.
Honestly, it's kinda funny, and it sounds like you are doing great. Keep on keepin' on : )
February 7, 2022 8:06 a.m.
Grubbernaut says... #17
He went about it in the wrong way and that was totally uncalled for. I had a guy like this that played pauper around the boom a couple of years ago, at my LGS.
That being said, if somebody expresses the same sentiment without being a jerk, it's not inherently bad. Say you're preparing to buy a very expensive modern deck, or go to your first big tournament; you definitely don't want to spend time playing against rogue decks, as it's better spent learning meta decks. But... if that was the case, he should've just left, or politely declined.
So, yeah. tl;dr is the guy is a douche.
February 7, 2022 11:21 a.m.
plakjekaas I'm not a hard tournament grinder either, and I apologize if I came across as overbearing or unpleasant. I think we agree that the matches you expect to face the most are the matches you should spend the most time practicing for. It seems like our main contention is whether or not it's worth it to face any decks that are outside of those expectations.
If your style works, and is proven to work, go for it! Use your prep well and cast with confidence. Above all, have fun!
February 7, 2022 3:24 p.m.
That happened to me too once on MTGO,
Funny thing is, a couple months later I went literal undefeated with the same deck at a GPT and got some byes for the following GP
I even had a really similar experience just a month or two ago.
It's not surprising it happens, cause honestly there are a ton of people like that out there
And boy do people hate being reminded that skill and knowledge can make up for whatever big dollars they drop
(I say with a playset of W6 lol)
February 7, 2022 4:20 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #20
legendofa, plakjekaas: Since both of you admit to having little/no experience with untap and to answer questions posed-
The five levels of game that you can tag your game with are Beginner, Janky, Casual, Optimized, and Competitive. Beginner is mostly used by people as they are learning the client and will have a game name clarifying power level. Janky denotes decks that are what was called "piles" when I was learning. Casual denotes decks that at least have a gameplan, but are not consistent or fast enough for tournament play. Optimized is used for Tier 2 or 3 decks and rogue decks. Competitive denotes Tier 1 or 2 decks. OP had their game labeled correctly and the opponent should have been looking for "competitive" tagged games if they were running a meta gauntlet.
There is not a set number of games that you can play each day. You can play as many as you would like. The client is a little clunky at times though and people tend to be inconsiderate of others time. So a game normally takes about a third to a half again as long as it would in paper. So while playing against an off-meta deck costs you nothing but time, it does cost a good chunk of time.
On the subject of the thread- The opponent could have been more gracious, especially since they were slumming down a level from where they should have been if they wanted to play exclusively meta decks. However; no one is entitled to anyone else's time.
I have had bad experiences across all sorts of clients with people who will lose and then tell me my deck is trash. This has ranged from a guy being mad that I built a 5c stall out Door to Nothingness deck in Duels 2014 sealed. To someone being mad when we were chatting after I beat them 2-0 when I told them that I was playing Belcher and not storm as they had assumed when I won with Empty the Warrens both times. And the most fun was when someone told me to sodomize myself with a red hot morning star for playing such a bad deck (the deck was Titan Bloom at the height of its popularity). That last one might have been "bad" as in "unfair" but it still stuck with me. You will run into assholes on the internet, it is best to just keep moving.
February 7, 2022 5:09 p.m.
what they are really saying in they want to only test against 'meta' decks and pretend everything else doesn't. Apart from when they play your cool t3 deck etc and get pounded. Honestly at events i find myself losing to the less popular decks. They aren't necessarily lower tier due to power, but due to popularity. I played Amulet titan in modern during Hogaak summer and day 2d a GP as nobody could really do anything vs it. I play post in legacy which people seem unprepared for. Some people get salty because they think they have the format 'solved' for the top 3 decks, when in reality there could be 30 or more that they might face.
Keep playing the decks you enjoy, hopefully they have a good shot of winning at least sometimes, as lets be honest, we all play these eternal formats to win at least occasionally and ignore the people that try to shame you because your deck is 'budget' or 'low tier'. Some people cannot conceive that people play decks through enjoyment, and not just pick the 'top deck' and throw money at the format
February 7, 2022 5:47 p.m.
wallisface says... #22
I think it’s probably pretty common, when you have a finely-tuned meta-deck, and come up against a homebrew, to initially assume the game is going to be an easy win (and perhaps a waste of both peoples time?). Going from that feeling of confidence, to see yourself getting beaten by said-homebrew, is probably an emotional-rollercoaster not all people are able to handle civilly.
Magics a game where a lot of the expectations are set-up as soon as you know your opponents deck. Realising you have a bad-matchup makes winning feel like a lot more of a triumph. And, on the inverse, believing you have a free-win, and then getting crushed, can be pretty disheartening.
I’m not trying to validate the actions of this salty player at all - the person was a big-old-douche. But I think understanding why they lashed out this way can help the recipient of the behaviour understand that they’re just dealing with a very emotional individual who hasn’t learned how to keep themselves in-check (and, maybe, there’s some solace to take in that).
February 8, 2022 3:14 p.m.
See, this is where I'd start being a douche...
Ask him why he's such an insecure tool who can't just play magic and go from there.
I've been playing since 94, I understand his argument... it's a stupid one
February 8, 2022 10:46 p.m.
MagicSteve6 says... #25
DragonWolf420 - sure thing: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-02-22-tYM-mono-green-aggro/?cb=1645908124
February 26, 2022 3:43 p.m.
Oh right, I forgot RIP Leatherback Baloth. That one hurts.
But no Steel Leaf Champion?
February 26, 2022 4:16 p.m.
MagicSteve6 says... #28
I had Steel Leaf in for a while, but cut it for Groundbreaker, to try to totally lean into fast/aggro.
Omniscience_is_life says... #2
Unfortunately, this seems to be a common type of magic player. I can't tell you how many times my opponent playing Merfolk or Sacrifice (very meta decks) in Historic on MTGA with full-art lands and shit has conceded after I mill them out or one-shot them with a Skyclave Geopede... it is quite frustrating, but ya gotta just remember how much cooler of a person you are ;)
February 7, 2022 12:48 a.m.