Labmaniac is just another win condition? How is it best to win with it? Just by milling yourself with halimar excavator?

nunoa name a card outside of the deck with Demonic Consultation is how it is used.

Hello everyone! Let discuss the new Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, she seems a good stax piece in cEDH. However does it have any place in this deck? If yes, which one to replace her with? I think space is kinda tight at this moment, it is easy to include her in but difficult to take out cards to replace her as the whole decklist seems pretty optimal already.

lynden Tazri can plausibly run many different stax pieces, including her, but I personally am of the philosophy that with Tazri not offering card advantage from the Command Zone, we really need our cards to be advancing toward enacting our plans, not simply disrupting opponents. It could be fine to make a slot for a bear of two if you think they are particularly good in your metagame.

My cuts would be the worst piece of interaction (probably Swords) or Wall of Roots. Lavinia won't make it into this stock list.

Question : How effective Plunge into Darkness ?

I know that a good card, synergize with the deck. But in a few test using that card, its a very low precentage to exile our CFE creatures or a card we want to put in hand that time (maybe Extract, Foresight, etc ). Yes that card is a Dig Through Time in steroid, but We usually pay around 10-20 life with Plunge into Darkness, get only one card and end up exiling another valuable utility cards ( our lab maniac, our tutors, our counterspells, etc ) and we can't recur them from the exile zone.

The other forbidden tutors is superfine in the deck, im just not peace with plunge into darkness.

How about adding more wheel spells and/or shuffling spells like Day's Undoing, Time Reversal?

allanrichardo the problem is you don't spend 39 life to plunge and win that turn.

SynergyBuild

its fine if all the wincon cards is in the opening hand ( all ramp n tutors that needed to turn 1 or 2 win ). How we can spend 39 life with plunge? It will never happen. Most of time we will spend around 5-10 life earlier ( to fetch/shock lands for the right color, mana crypt/vault ), didnt mention if we got hit by another player, or our spell get countered. So like i said, plunge is cast spending 20-25 life most of time.

Dont get me wrong, it still a good card like i mentioned in the last post, the question is how effective is plunge? -Didnt guarantee to get the card we need, and put our life to huge risk-

allanrichardo use OG duals, not shocks, cool, you fetched twice, you are at 38, you can spend 37, not 20.

Also, 20-25 isn't what you said, you said 10-20. 30 if often for me. I almost always get a Food Chain&CFE creature for 30, or a tutor for Food Chain/tutor to exile for CFE creature.

It often is a two-mana set up an instant win, given you have the mana up to cast the combo afterwards.

SynergyBuild So based on your comment, its effective in the opening hand or early game only? Thats what i need to know.

Mid to late game is less effective cos our life probably is less than 30..

And its effective if we have original duals?

Cos most players dont hv a chance to have those. Most players can olny afford shock duals.

allanrichardo I'd like you to define 'early game' before going further in this rabbit hole.

Also, are you not going to back up or apologize for your inconsistency, 10-20, 20-25, you keep saying you have said different things than you do. I am tired of it.

allanrichardo also, for cEDH, most players I know proxy

Been playing the updated list for about 2 months now. What are your thoughts on Assassin's Trophy in this deck. Most games I've played with the current list I haven't seen a use for it and I end up regretting it being a dead card essentially. What has your experience with it been?

Ozymandias94

Assassins Trophy seems to be fine in the deck, and outshines what was taken out which was Riftsweeper. Where I have found it useful in most cases is to take out a stax piece such as Sphere of Resistance or Trinisphere which is preventing us from going off. It is also useful as a Commander removal spell. A couple of times I have used it to take care of a commander, which I knew was pivotal to the strategy. It can also target lands exchanging things like Gaia's Cradle or Tabernacle for a basic. It's not the most effective because of the free basic, but if you use it at the right time that doesn't matter too much. Non discriminate permanent removal is powerful and welcomed in any form.

Im really excited to try this list coming from fcp. Timetwister is just out of range tho. Could you explain why you prefer windfall to wheel of fortune? I understand that the U cost is more desirable and attainable than red but the consistency of 7 cards is desirable whereas windfall has the potential to get less cards (and more i will concede in certain situations.

Phoenix-Oh

Not having the red symbol makes it much more likely we'll cast it on very early turns (and the wheels get worse the longer the game has gone on), and it enables us to not have to run any red fetchables in the manabase.

The difference between the budget version and this one is fairly large. I only have a few cards that I am either missing or can't afford. My playgroup doesn't allow proxies. What do you recommend for replacements for Imperial Seal, Timetwister, Yawgmoth's Will, and the ABUR duals?

Darrinmtg Check the budget section of the primer. Do the best you can for a BUG manabase splashing W (pains, battlebond lands, more shocks, Urborg). Another piece of recursion should replace Will; Treasured Find and Reclaim come to mind but you might be able to do better. I'd consider Will a high priority upgrade at this point. Seal can be replaced with the next best tutor for Food Chain (maybe Sterling Grove ). Instead of Timetwister I'd play a 29th land, as the manabase is fairly greedy (and you're using suboptimal lands).

ShaperSavant Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it. This is my first time dipping my toe into cEDH, so I am grateful for the primer and the advice.

Thanks for this post. I've been looking into building Tazri and I think this post is the best I've seen so far.

One problem I see is that my playgroup plays Praetor's Grasp, which can take out Food Chain. It exiles the card face down, so Rift Sweeper can't get it back. Is there any solution to that? Or an alternate win con?

Entomb is there to put Squee in the yard?

DevilHSC Laboratory Maniac + Demonic Consultation/Tainted Pact + draw

SlavicGhaespar Yes.

Thanks. I've put up a list based of your lists. If you are willing, I would really appreciate your advice. Some obvious cards, like Enlightened and Vampiric tutor are missing in my collection. Here is the list General Tazri, on top of Food Chain

Just a heads up. I will be referencing your deck for a different FC commander on tappedout. Please let me know if it's inappropriate. (partially I don't want to write up so much detail explaining FC combo and game plan when there is already a good source)

I will mention that the deck started based on your list so I don't have to find each card name on my own.

ShaperSavant, did you consider cutting Delay for Narset's Reversal ?