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I dont play tapped lands period. I know everyone running Meren has Bojuka Bog . Still, the tempo loss is a big deal. Cavern of Souls is definitely on my radar.
May 22, 2019 7:18 a.m.
I made a mistake concerning Pitiless Plunderer . I thought it generated mana from creatures etb. This would increase the chances it generates mana on the turn it is cast. I still think Sol Ring is the superior card for this deck.
May 21, 2019 3:52 p.m.
Control_Train, as I play Meren I appreciate your list more and more. There are a few cards I question.
Could Sol Ring be better in the deck than Pitiless Plunderer ? Early game Sol Ring is the only option. It gets Meren out two turns earlier. It allows for multiple early turn casts. Pitiless Plunderer never sees the field before Meren.
Midgame, assuming Pitiless Plunderer is cast after Meren, how often do you see it generate mana that turn? Meren would have to return a creature to the battlefield or you would have to cast a one mana creature assuming the fifth land drop. Meanwhile, Sol Ring is generating mana every turn it is cast include a net positive of one colorless mana the turn it is cast.
Late mid game and late game Pitiless is the clear winner. Colored mana that can will be generated in bunches and stored for big turns finally beats the consistent colorless Sol Ring mana.
The argument to include a creature in a deck that has more means to tutor creatures (more so with the inclusion of Survival of the Fittest ) than artifacts is also suspect. That assumes Pitiless Plunderer is a common tutor target. My strong suspicion is that you rarely if ever tutor this creature. Am I wrong in thinking this?
May 21, 2019 2:59 p.m.
Thanks for the quick response. I feel better about the changes I made. Cavern of Souls has been on my mind. The ability to grab a land early with Imperial Seal is yet another reason I like it over Mausoleum Secrets .
May 21, 2019 1:11 p.m.
I forgot to add that I recently tutored Sakura-Tribe Elder first. It was an effective move. Please keep sharing insights into how to pilot the deck.
One of the better cards for me has been Earthcraft . That has got me considering Sol Ring or another card that is a star in competitive play in Carpet of Flowers . I concede that Carpet of Flowers is not an auto include in casual as it is in competetive play.
I am playing 37 creatures, as is Control_Train. You have stated mana is not a problem. But, is there a reason Pitiless Plunderer should not be Sol Ring? Sol Ring gets Meren out two turns earlier and you are never going to cast Pitiless Plunderer before Meren. Plunderer would have to have two creatures etb a turn to produce the amount of mana Sol Ring does. Plunderer at that point would be more valuable considering it is colored mana. Is Plunderer a win more type card?
May 21, 2019 1:04 p.m.
Ripwater, thanks for the reply. I always look forward with much anticipation to your input.
Everytime I try to move away from Control_Train's list I end up putting back in his card's that I cut.
Silhana Wayfinder is subpar. We have discussed my view that Destructor Dragon is overcosted. I agree with your theory that Massacre Girl would threaten Meren so I am hesitant to play her. I like having Kukusho and Sheoldred to help close out games. Am I wrong that Control_Train's list lacks any closers?
He has played Mindslicer in the past. The theory behind this card's inclusion is solid. We should be able to play top deck much better than our opponents by utilizing the graveyard. It is a nice inclusion for our Birthing Pod chain. How has it performed for you?
Is Sylvan Safekeeper a recent addition? I thought for sure you were not playing this card as of last week.
Pattern of Rebirth , Dismember , Mausoleum Secrets , Casualties of War , and Final Parting were replaced by Birthing Pod , Sylvan Library , Survival of the Fittest a Imperial Seal and Guardian Project in my list.
I only have reservations concerning Casulties of War. The three tutors (or tutor engines) I am playing have proven to be superior to his across all formats. Sylvan Library is a green staple, and is an extremely strong early turn play. You made a convincing argument in defense of Guardian Project. Dismember seems like the weakest of the removal spells.
I cut Sol Ring but it was like pulling teeth and may make way back into the deck. I tutor for Sylvan Safekeeper frequently and the deck tutors creatures easier than artifacts. Still, Lightning Greaves should be in my list. Safekeeper is the superior card in my opinion but this deck has to have Meren on board. Has Lightning Greaves been effective for you?
As a side note, it does not seem Control_Train reinserts cards he cuts. I wish I could say the same. I put Prowling Serpopard back into the deck. Chalk it up to an irrational fear of blue countermagic. No attempts at justification will be made for its inclusion.
May 21, 2019 11:27 a.m.
May 20, 2019 3:10 p.m.
I go back and forth on Lightning Greaves . Is spot removal on Meren an issue in your meta and do you find Sylvan Safekeeper sufficient? I find myself tutoring for it first as my opponents hold up instant speed removal for Meren.
May 20, 2019 7:47 a.m.
I find it very interesting that your first tutor is for Sakura-Tribe Elder . I have only played a couple of games with the deck. My first tutor is usually Spore Frog or Sylvan Safekeeper . It would seem your opponents would target Meren. How do you keep her on the board? Is your reasoning that you use Sakura-Tribe Elder to ramp so that you can just recast her?
Has your thoughts on Necrotic Ooze changed? You posted on May 15 on Control_Train's thread, "The other one that I've cut is Necrotic Ooze again, rarely pulled it's weight and often he turned into a sakura tribe elder... Not what I want to do for 4 mana."
I have tried to not add cards that either you or Control_Train are not playing. The logic being why not utilized two players who have games upon games to tune the deck. Keeping that in mind would you think it would be prudent to cut Pitiless Plunderer for Birthing Pod , and Victimize for Worldly Tutor ?
Now, having said that, I now am going to ask your opinion on cutting Mausoleum Secrets for Imperial Seal and Pernicious Deed , Maelstrom Pulse or Casualties of War for Massacre Wurm . The first cut I do not envision being controversial. Imperial Seal is a top deck, sorcery speed unconditional tutor. Mausoleum Secrets is instant speed but requires creatures in the graveyard and only gets a black card.
The second cut may get down voted by you. The deck already plays a top of spot removal and sweepers. Massacre Wurm is already on your radar and it makes another great etb effect at 6 mana for Birthing Pod .
Speaking of Birthing Pod, you only have one good etb creature at five mana in Sidisi, Undead Vizier .
May 19, 2019 3:24 p.m.
Would Bazaar of Baghdad have a place on this list?
May 19, 2019 3:15 a.m.
Wow, I am way off tonight-sorry. I just realized you cut Krav, the Unredeemed for Birthing Pod . Has Victimize been good for you? It seems to really go with this build despite Control_Train not playing it.
I played Krav tonight and he was really good for me. Hopefully, I will get some more testing tommorrow.
May 19, 2019 2 a.m.
The last line should read; "What do you think of these changes"?
May 19, 2019 1:50 a.m.
Ripwater, I checked the deck. I am playing Sol Ring , Pitiless Plunderer , Fauna Shaman and Sylvan Safekeeper in place of Destructor Dragon , Garruk, Apex Predator , Vindictive Lich , and Necrotic Ooze . I guess I am most surprised you or Control_Train is not playing Sylvan Safekeeper. I can't see that ever getting cut.
May 19, 2019 1:38 a.m.
May 18, 2019 2:31 a.m.
May 18, 2019 2:06 a.m.
May 18, 2019 2:02 a.m.
Carpet of Flowers may be going in for Awakening Zone. I have had good experiences with Carpet.
May 17, 2019 2:12 a.m.
Ripwater, I don't have a list online. I dont play enough to really playtest a deck. I have your list with three changes. I am running Sol Ring, Fauna Shaman, and Awakening Zone in place of Destructor Dragon, Garruk, Apex Predator and Vindictive Lich.
May 17, 2019 2:03 a.m.
Ok, I understand your objections. I agree with you on the addition of Birthing Pod as it is in my deck.
May 16, 2019 6:33 p.m.
Fauna Shaman is one of those cards that almost demands a response from the table. Sure, it is not as good as Survival of the Fittest. But if that is your standard you are going to have a deck without any other enchantments or one or two green permanents. Sure it eats removal 33% to 50% of the time but that is less removal for Meren. I think it is an auto include in a deck with 34 creatures particularly one that utilizes Spore Frog and Sakura-Tribe Elder.
May 16, 2019 12:48 p.m.
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